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Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Local Resident (18th Dec 2020 - 04:28:02) I regularly cycle from Liphook to Passfield and back. Sometimes onto Bordon. It is usually a pretty horrible experience - van drivers lead the list of people who seem to want me dead. Leaving no sort of distance when they pass me, cutting me up, overtaking me on blind bends etc etc. It does make me wonder why there isn't a cycle path linking the two towns. Particularly as Bordon is such a boom town these days. And Liphook has the railway station. There must be loads of people who would bike between the two towns rather than drive if there was a cycle route? And we all need to get out of our cars to ‘Save the World’. Does anyone know if this has it ever been discussed - in the HCC/EHDC 'corridors of power'? I am sure the answer is going to be along the lines of 'the Council has no money, it would be massively expensive, cyclists don't pay any road tax, you are an eccentric idiot who just needs to buy a car'. But I just wondered if this had ever been considered?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (18th Dec 2020 - 08:03:16) Doesn't the Longmoor Loop take you to Bordon?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - S (18th Dec 2020 - 09:34:14) Excellent idea. Both councils should look at finding this. Didn’t Rishi announce some cash for promoting cycling a while back? The loop is gravel at best so not great for certain bikes. To and from the loop is mainly muddy track.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (18th Dec 2020 - 09:38:08) D, yes longmoor can get you to bordon however it takes longer and is sometimes closed to the public. this person is also going to Passfield

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jen (18th Dec 2020 - 09:56:11) Part of the problem is that the traffic on the B3004 as it passes through Hill House Hill and Passfield Common is moving far too fast, unimpeded by any road furniture. I was walking along the pavement between Dryden Way and Burgh Hill Road the other day and it did not feel safe. Although the pavement is very narrow in places, there was no noticeable slowing down of any of the vehicles coming up behind me, passing just a couple of feet to my right at 40+mph. I can only imagine what it's like for a cyclist trying to keep to the edge of the road when being overtaken at close proximity by speeding vehicles. If the speed limit were to be reduced to 30mph (or, better still, 20mph) and several chicanes and/or traffic islands installed, it would go some way to slowing the traffic down and making cycling and walking a safer and more pleasant experience. This would, hopefully, then encourage more people to leave their cars behind and walk or cycle instead.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (18th Dec 2020 - 11:00:27) The original question was "is there a cycle route from Liphook to Bordon." There is but this doesn't seem to be good enough. How many bicycles per hour use the Liphook to Passfield road? Over a twenty four hour period it probably isn't even one per hour. What a waste of money that would be. Is the lady cycling to Passfield on a day like this? Probably not.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - F (18th Dec 2020 - 11:38:14) I don’t cycle it as it’s too dangerous. I would if there was a distinct cycle path.... must be a few like me...

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Charlie (18th Dec 2020 - 11:55:55) When cycling from Liphook to Passfield, I always use Tunbridge Lane, a quiet country lane that runs parallel to the B3004, Headley Road. Depending on where in Liphook you are starting from this can be accessed either through Bramshott Village, or by turning right just after crossing the A3 bridge on the Headley Road. If you are going further on from Passfield, and on to Bordon you can use Tulls Lane, and then just a short stretch of the B3004 before you arrive at Lindford, which has a wide road with traffic calming.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (18th Dec 2020 - 13:08:58) Excellent idea, Charlie. They are indeed very nice routes and perfect for cyclists.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (18th Dec 2020 - 15:01:46) D, You say there is a cycle path, where is this? Or are you once again refering to longmoor camp/ranges? To get to the ranges, you have to use a bridleway, this bridleway is uneven and very dangerous for cyclists, there is a ditch that runs down the centre of it! And even then if it gets muddy you are in an even worse position. The ranges is also not always open to the public which is what I said earlier, it belongs to the MOD and the track is not suitable for certain bikes such as road bikes.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (18th Dec 2020 - 15:25:57) I never said there is a cycle path to Bordon, I said the Longmoor Loop will take you to Bordon. If a bit of mud is a problem then maybe the clean, mettled Headley Road is a better option.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (18th Dec 2020 - 18:09:12) D, Look at the below quote: "Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (18th Dec 2020 �11:00:27) The original question was "is there a cycle route from Liphook to Bordon." There is but this doesn't seem to be good enough." It is not a bit of mud, you have clearly not walked or cycled it. This thread is about Headley Road and what can be done to make it safer, such as putting in a cycle path. Like people have said, if there was a cycle path people would use it more often as it is safer.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (18th Dec 2020 - 20:14:21) Well, James, we are in a pandemic which shows no sign of ending any time soon and it is costing the world a lot of money (that thing you'll have to work for when you leave school.) Do you really think there is any spare cash for arty farty cycle lanes which would only be used by a small amount of people for a short time in the summer? Why don't you do a study and see how many use the cycle lane on the A3 between Liphook and Longmoor? Very few, it certainly didn't justify the cost. The only way this could come about would be through private funding. Given your obvious business genius why don't you form a group of like minded people to achieve this rather than your continual precocious nit-picking of other people's contributions? I'm sure there are many businessmen who would like to invest in you.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - HP (18th Dec 2020 - 23:15:16) Wow. That escalated quickly.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Pete (19th Dec 2020 - 08:13:40) My Goodness D you really can be rather condescending cant you. I'm assuming that when you said you didn't say there was a "cycle path" you are trying to catch James out as your actual words were "cycle route" are you a politician by any chance as this is exactly the type of language twisting they use. Your view is at best short sighted and cant help thinking your just on here to get a rise out of people and inflate even further your ego. i fail to see how he was nit picking any comments, you suggested the Bordon ranges he replied it is not suitable (rightly so). Your attitude is at best short sighted, of course if you did a study it would show low usage that is exactly the point it is currently too dangerous to use. I constantly see on here comments about how Bohunt children should walk or cycle to school to relieve the local traffic well this would certainly be a good start. Lastly do you really think the use of the words arty farty to describe something, that would be a great infrastructure project improving peoples health and reducing local traffic, any gravitas. Personally I think it just adds to your pomposity.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jennifer (19th Dec 2020 - 11:23:24) Hear hear! Well said Pete! The reason the so-called cycle paths are not very well used is that they are not safe to use. Has anyone tried cycling the signposted cycle route from Hindhead to Liphook? It starts off OK but then, for some bizarre reason, the safe route ends and you are forced to use the A3 dual carriageway for the last mile or so. I discovered this last year when I was walking from Grayshott to Liphook and decided to follow the cycle path. The path does not go to Liphook, it abruptly ends at the A3 - yet in Hindhead it is clearly signposted as a cycle path to Liphook! I've driven on several roads where there is a line painted on the road, supposedly to signify a cycle lane, but the roads are far too narrow to give sufficient space for both cyclists and cars. Those painted lines are just that: painted lines. If it became illegal for cars to drive over the lines, that would help somewhat, but the "cycle lanes" would need to be wider and the section of the road allocated to cars would be narrower, effectively turning most rural roads into single track roads. Perhaps it would be better to have one side of the road devoted to cyclists and the other to cars, with a kerb dividing them, a low speed limit and allowing cars to drive over the kerb only when necessary (eg to pass vehicles approaching from the opposite direction or to turn off into a side road) and when safe to do so (ie when no cyclists in the cycle lane). Cars would give way to cyclists, in other words. By the way, I feel I should add, I am not and never have been a cyclist. I don't own a bike.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - JBS (19th Dec 2020 - 14:06:38) Tunbridge Lane is increasingly being used as a short cut by Bramshott residents to avoid the London Road route into Liphook. This would not be so bad but for their insistance of driving at the national speed limit (60 m.p.h.). Many of them do not seem to know the width of their vehicles, and so drive in the centre of the narrow road, thus restricting the space for cyclists and pedestrians! The 'school run' times seem worse in this respect. For instance, Saturdays are quite safe for a walk or cycle along this road, as the traffic is much lighter.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Car driver (19th Dec 2020 - 15:37:05) Just saying cyclists don’t pay any road tax every body else pays through the nose to use the roads. When I see cycle tracks with no cycles on them empty most of the time I think what a waste of money my money???.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Al (19th Dec 2020 - 17:21:59) I think that would be a great idea, I travel to bordon to work but I'd love to cycle there in the summer, I certainly would not cycle in the dark along that road, even in my car I see so many idiots, especially speeding motorists. 40 mph means 40 but they don't do it.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (19th Dec 2020 - 17:57:06) Pete, your spelling and grammar make your message hard to read but:- The only cycle path I refer to is the one on the southbound A3 between Liphook and Longmoor. My workplace overlooks this and some days we see no cyclists on it at all. I work weekends as well so I can account for weekend pleasure cyclists as well as weekday commuters. Yes, I did refer to the perimeter track around the ranges as a cycle route. Why? Because every day I see many cyclists on it, if access is so bad how did they get there? There is more than one access point to this track and not just the most inconvenient one James has chosen to highlight. I stand by my remark that cycle paths on the Headley Road between Liphook and Bordon is an arty farty idea. Once I cycle to Bordon how do I get my shopping home? It would only be of use to a few pleasure cyclists for a short time in the summer. I am not against cycle lanes, places like London where it is more efficient to cycle than sit in a taxi at 5mph, fine, they are being well used. They aren't in areas like ours. As for your poor attempt at psycho-analysis, Pete, don't give up the day job. Thanks awfully. As for those who tell me I should "get out of my car to save the planet," I trust you have made the decision not to have children thereby exacerbating the problem.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (19th Dec 2020 - 21:36:58) Oh D, you fail to not disappoint. First of I am going to discuss your message directed to me then to Pete. I am fully aware we are in a pandemic, and I do not appreciate you talking to me in a condescending manner, I feel like I talk to you with respect so I expect that in return. Just because I disagree with you on most occasions does not mean I disrespect you as you have done to me. Yes, I do think there is space for an 'arty farty cycle' lane! Given that we can spend 900k to paint a plane for Boris at the beginning of the first lockdown I believe a cycle path is well within the budget! Why would I do a study for the cycle path on the A3 as that is not what we are on about! [This bit is where you directed the message to Pete] D, I have not chosen the most inconvenient route to pick, I picked the quickest and shortest. Let's take a look at the route (route 1), it is 1.29km long and can be seen here: ibb.co/Xp2kt25 Let's take a look at an alternative route (route 2), it is 2.32km long and can be seen here: ibb.co/cFfjS0Y The purpose of a cycle path is to avoid Headley Road, by putting in a designated space for cyclists. Route 1, is the most direct route to the ranges, whereas route 2, is not and involves a hill, and multiple sharp bends. Finally, D, if you want to apologise for your total disrespect to me, you can do so either publically or by emailing me at jamesiamsorry@gmail.com - good email address right! Just for you D. Thanks for making me laugh as usual. PS. it is arty-farty, not 'arty farty' you forgot the hyphen before you start correcting people on their grammar.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (20th Dec 2020 - 00:31:27) The queer thing is, James, that you would go to the trouble of looking up "arty farty" on the internet! As a slang expression it is correct with or without the hyphen. Given the origin of this thread I'm surprised you haven't researched how many accidents involving bicycles have been reported on the Headley Road in recent years. Maybe you have and the answer is "zero".

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (20th Dec 2020 - 09:03:03) Referring to Car Driver's contribution, and Local Resident's comment of how the cost of said cycle lanes could be a prohibitive issue, I think a cycle tax is an excellent idea. Cyclists are a potential source of vast revenue for the treasury which could then fund these cycle lanes people think we so badly need. I don't think £100 per annum per unit unreasonable, coupled with an annual cyclist registration scheme whereby cyclists have a unique identification number displayed on the back of their hi-vis vest. What a wonderful thing social media is, not only have we identified a problem (how to fund cycle lanes) we have, between us, found a solution as well. I'll be on the phone to my friend Damien first thing tomorrow. Well done, chaps!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (20th Dec 2020 - 19:32:44) D, My apologies, if you are being informal, why does spelling matter for other people? After all, it is informal and was understandable. D, unfortunately, they do not release statistics by road name, I did have a look! However, cyclists are 15 times more likely to be killed on the road than drivers, despite doing fewer miles. What statistics do you have for your defence D? None! You mention taxing cyclists, why would you tax something with so many benefits and minor negatives? Cycling is not only good for an individual's physical health but mental health too, and has cost savings for the health services! Cycling also reduces pollution levels including pollution that has an impact on public health and climate change. When INVESTMENT is made in safe and attractive cycling networks the positives are amplified and the negatives become even more minor! Now, are you expecting young children to pay this 'tax'? That will directly affect minority communities such as those on a low income. Oh! You didn't think of that. What about bike-ability - which teaches young children how to ride a bike safely, are they expected to pay this 'tax'? Oh, and most cyclists are motorists too. car tax is based on emissions? Surely, we will use the same system as motor vehicles. Which means a bike has 0% emissions which means a grand total of £0 will be paid in tax. D, you mention a hi-vis vest, it is not a legal requirement to wear a high-vis, are you going to make this a legal requirement? How are you going to make sure that all cyclists wear these vests? What about competitive cycling? Do they have to wear these vests too, which could make them lose their race, damaging the sports industry! You sound like a conservative not surprised he is your friend. Thanks for making me laugh as usual! Oh and D, I am still waiting for that apology! jamesiamsorry@gmail.com Also, try and get some statistics and facts! I'd love to read them!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (20th Dec 2020 - 22:12:56) The queer thing is James, you have all these wonderful ideas but no idea how to pay for them. My suggestions would pay for cycle paths everywhere, I would add a compulsory third party insurance for cyclists as well which would raise even more revenue. High vis vests with a registration number a legal requirement you ask, yes. It's no different from displaying a number plate on a vehicle. It would improve cyclists behaviour as they would no longer have the anonymity they have now. I really don't see what your problem is with expecting people to take some responsibility. How would YOU pay for cycle paths?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (20th Dec 2020 - 23:46:04) D, A compulsory third part revenue would only benefit businesses, but I suppose that is the tory in you speaking. Not surprised! You mention cyclists getting away with certain behaviour, please specify, what behaviour? What laws have you seen most cyclists break? Once again, I am looking for statistics and facts; something you are failing to provide. Let's take a look at some numbers, Chris Boardman, a cycle campaigner for Greater Manchester noted it would cost approximately £1.5bn to deliver 1,800 miles of safer cycling. We only need approximately 10 miles! Do the maths D. Thanks for making me laugh as usual! Oh and D, I am still waiting for that apology! jamesiamsorry@gmail.com Also, try and get some statistics and facts! I'd love to read them!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Pete (21st Dec 2020 - 07:57:23) D- Thank you for proving my point.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (21st Dec 2020 - 08:19:42) Fact:- Cycle lanes cost money, James has no plan how to pay for them. On the other hand, D has a viable, workable scheme to raise the funds for said cycle lanes. It is a sad reflection of today's society that we constantly hear people demanding this and that yet those people never have a solution of how to fund their demands. I suppose there is always the magic money tree. You will have to excuse me now, James. I have a phonecall to make then I'm going to drive to Bordon. Given how much it costs to keep a vehicle on the road there is no way I'm going to leave it sitting in the garage every day and use a bicycle. Strange how all these enthusiastic cyclists revert to their cars on days like this.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Joe (21st Dec 2020 - 09:07:53) Hi James although I do not approve of the way D is engaging with you on this website I can give you my evidence re cyclists - riding 2 abreast on a single track road, whizzing around at speed on MOD owned land which has no footpaths or designated cycle routes, refusing to slow down on towpaths expecting walkers to leap sideways into the canal for them to get out of their way, riding without lights in the dark, speeding downhill around bends on narrow country lanes. Hurling abuse if you do not pass them in a car, ( this on a blind bend).

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (21st Dec 2020 - 09:28:29) I know I risk public ridicule for my standard of mathematics, but based on James' figures, ten miles of cycle lane to Bordon and back would cost £833,333 (recurring.) I divided 1,500,000,000 (is that 1.5 billion?) by 18,000 then multiplied by 10. Sorry if I'm wrong but pompous, condescending working class oiks like me aint too good at maffs! If it's as cheap as that I'm sure interested parties would have no objection to putting the money up themselves and maybe recoup their outlay by selling permits to use it. As James alluded, build a cycle lane and everyone will use it. Of course they will.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (21st Dec 2020 - 10:22:43) Hi Joe, I quickly want to go over your statements. Riding two abreast is not illegal, in some situations, it is safer to ride two abreast, especially if it is a single track with winds and bends. I have not seen anyone whizzing around on a bike on MOD land which has led to walkers leaping sideways, however just because I haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So I will take your word for that. It is important to also note, that a cycle path will avoid the MOD land, making it safer for walkers. Riding without lights is illegal, I have unfortunately seen this, however, this is a MINORITY and does not reflect on everyone who rides a bike. I also have not seen any cyclist hurling abuse at a car for not passing, however, other factors may be included, the car getting too close to the cyclist or the car riding so close it is practically at the side of the bike, both have happened to me. Hope this helps, as a counter-argument. Something D fails to do. D, you may have heard of the Bramshott and Liphook Neighbourhood Development Plan on their interim report in March 2018, under AM2 Promote active travel modes (i.e. walking & cycling) across the parish. The aim of this policy is to increase the proportion of journeys being made by active travel. One of the aims for this report states as follows: "Implement connected foot and cycle path network throughout parish and out to surrounding areas". Because of that, I do not think it is unreasonable that the developers should pay for this cycle path, if they want to build houses, they should also build the infrastructure that comes with that. D, you say no-one will use them, I will, the OP probably will, and others. Let's also talk about your scheme, for it to work, you will need to set up a new department in government, which will cost money, you will then have to find the staff and IT equipment which will cost money, then you will have to advertise which will cost money, then you have to enforce it which will cost money. It will also affect people from low-income families, the people who are at a higher risk of bad physical and mental health. D, your 'scheme' is flawed, it is a way to make money out of poor people, and give it to the people who run these businesses like your insurance company with the 'third party insurance' you suggested. You also failed to answer how this would work for people under the age of 16, as they do not have a national insurance number and therefore can not do many things such as pay tax, or the hundreds of thousands of children that do bike-ability to learn how to ride a bike safely. You are also becoming condescending again, to step it back a notch. Thanks for making me laugh as usual! Oh and D, I am still waiting for that apology! jamesiamsorry@gmail.com

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jennifer (21st Dec 2020 - 11:30:07) Joe, on a single track road there would be insufficient clearance for a vehicle to overtake a bike safely, so it's probably safer for two cyclists to ride two abreast in that situation. If they moved into single file it would encourage following vehicles to attempt to overtake, which would be dangerous. On narrow roads it's surely best simply to stay behind cyclists until the road widens to enable overtaking or until either you or the cyclist turns off the road or until the cyclist pulls into a lay-by to allow vehicles to overtake.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (21st Dec 2020 - 12:21:20) The queer thing is James, every solution anybody comes up with, you always find another problem. You said yourself there are no reported accidents involving bicycles on the Headley Road in recent years which would suggest it is in fact a very safe road. So there's no need for a cycle path.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Joe (21st Dec 2020 - 15:24:07) I do understand the cyclists think it safer for them to cycle two abreast but even when there are plenty of driveways to pull over into to let cars pass cyclists usually choose not to let cars past them even when there are safe areas. Journeys in cars can therefore become 40 mins in a lane usually taking 5 or 10 mins.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (21st Dec 2020 - 16:43:01) D, the only queer thing is you. You think it is acceptable to charge people to use something, that has many positive impacts on society. I did not say there were no reported incidents (not accidents that implies no one is at fault) on Headley Road, I did say there is no data available for roads. So instead, I supplied a statistic. Cyclists are 15x more likely to be killed than drivers, despite travelling fewer miles. You have somehow gotten the idea that I supplied data for Headley road which I did not, which then apparently means it is a safe place for cyclists. Which it is not, and that is the purpose of this thread, and if you truly believe this then you would not be arguing with me on this matter about who would pay for it! Thanks for making me laugh as usual! Oh and D, I am still waiting for that apology! jamesiamsorry@gmail.com

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (21st Dec 2020 - 17:52:35) Further to my comments about the cycle path on the southbound A3 between Liphook and Longmoor I can confirm that today not one bicycle (zero) used it. What a waste of public money that was. "Build the cycle lanes and people will use them"? Bo****ks!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (21st Dec 2020 - 18:01:35) James, you have now invited me to correspond with you on your private e-mail address five times, I trust you won't make it six. I do not and never have corresponded with anyone on this website via private e-mail addresses. Please rest assured that I will not be contacting you on "@precociouspratt.com" any time soon. Thankyou.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Anon (21st Dec 2020 - 18:13:55) Please refrain from calling people queer James, it is highly offensive

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jake (21st Dec 2020 - 18:53:13) *gets popcorn*

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Local Resident (21st Dec 2020 - 21:23:39) I’ve been away with my work for a few days – and come back to these great responses. Which I have enjoyed reading. My question was actually simply “Does anyone know if this has it ever been discussed” – by the Council, Sustrans etc. I guess the answer is ‘no’. As for all the other comments – for sure the back route to Passfield Stores is an option for part of the route, albeit a longer detour. But the ride out of Liphook village is unavoidably hellish, and then from Passfield to Bordon is equally stressful. And don’t get me started on Haslemere to Liphook – the main road is literally suicidal on a bike, while the back route via Hammer is OK, but the road is in such a dreadful state it does make it very hard. Bit like the back route to Passfield. This is the hidden challenge to cyclists in the UK – the poor condition of roads (potholes etc) which is generally not such a problem across the Channel. And I would counter the position that a dedicated cycle route is not worth pursuing because no one cycles this route by saying this is classic ‘chicken and egg’. If EHDC build it, they will come, to paraphrase Kevin Costner. Riding two abreast is actually about to become illegal. But again, for all regular cyclists, the dilemma is always whether to cycle hugging the kerb, in among the rubbish and manhole covers, or boldly – and legitimately – out towards the centre of the carriageway. Incurring the wrath of every driver…! And finally, I guarantee I’m not a lady - I am an arty farty six foot four man. Hard to miss when on a bike, let’s be honest. :)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jennifer (22nd Dec 2020 - 11:23:23) I would be in favour of it being mandatory: a) for cyclists to wear high viz clothing; b) for bikes to have bright lights on at the front and back 24/7; c) for cyclists to ride in the centre of the carriageway; d) for cyclists to be prohibited from riding on major A-roads and dual carriageways, except in cases where a fully separated cycle lane exists.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - er (22nd Dec 2020 - 12:41:45) Just because some government employed mammals have incited cyclists to 'own the road you have right of way' doesn't make it sensible for me to ride from Liphook to Bordon in the middle of the road, holding up all the cars, vans and lorries and making everybody else's journey last an hour because I'm on a bike. Any more than if they said walk in the middle of the road where there is no pavement and make the cars go at walking pace! As a sensible driver, cyclist and walker I try to stick to the appropriate area of the highway, give room for faster things to overtake and treat everybody with respect, this is the countryside not the urban city, we often have no option but to use private transport, when I worked near Winchester (because there were no jobs nearer) it took an hour or more to commute by car, if I had never overtaken cyclists it would have taken me nearer 3 hours each way or by train and bus I would have had no chance and the cost would have been prohibitive! I agree that we need many more cycle paths but it will cost money, I would be happy to pay road tax as a cyclist, not for children but say anyone over the age of 18 (I do already as a car driver and even if we all go electric, they will still need to find a way to tax us) I know this is the only fair way to fund more segregated and direct cycle paths, nothing in life is free, someone has to pay! PS Who thinks D and James sound like newly weds trying to agree the cleaning rosta?!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Penny Williamson (22nd Dec 2020 - 17:07:47) I agree with everything Jennifer has said in particular with regard to high viz clothes and lights. However I cannot see what would be achieved by a cyclist cycling down the middle of a carriageway except to cause a major tailback of traffic. Incidentally I think it should mandatory for horseriders on public roads to wear high viz clothes as well.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (22nd Dec 2020 - 20:32:26) D, I am not sure why you keep on bringing up the cycle path on the A3, this has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. That cycle path does not lead anywhere with infrastructure so I am not sure why people would use it, daily.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (23rd Dec 2020 - 09:21:21) Hello er, good to hear from you again. Yes, you're right, the exchanges between myself and James are starting to sound like two drunken men in the Kemptown area of Brighton on a Saturday night.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Liphookean (23rd Dec 2020 - 11:15:20) In your desire to argue you have missed the original posters point. Bordon is a growing town with no station. Liphook, also growing, has a station and is a gateway into the South Downs National Park. Between the two towns there is a population of 30,000 people. We should aspire to having a wonderful cycle-path that joins the 5 miles between Liphook and Bordon to make people want to buy a bike to cycle on it. Liphook should have a proper link to the cycle path to Hindhead so we can safely cycle to the Devils Punchbowl and surroundings. Add a few interesting attractions on that pathway and cycle path and you will discover people will come to do the walk and cycle, bringing business to coffee shops and the like. You only have to look at how busy the Devil's punchbowl is to see how much people like to get outdoors. We don't even have a footpath from Station Road into the station but expect school children to walk with cars sweeping in to pick up commuters. If we invest the money to make our villages and towns more friendly to pedestrians and cyclists it will pay back in quality of life and economically too.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - passfield resident (23rd Dec 2020 - 12:12:28) Liphookean-well said . Thank goodness for a sensible post on an important topic that deserves a better discussion than the one it's been getting here.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (23rd Dec 2020 - 13:25:30) As always, the question of how this will be paid for remains unanswered.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (23rd Dec 2020 - 14:01:23) D, you clearly have not read my responses. The government have grants, and it is not unfair to demand that the developers in both Liphook and Bordon pay for it. Given your conservative views you probably won't agree with me though...

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Joe (23rd Dec 2020 - 14:01:23) If the posting is true then I am pleased that riding 2 abreast will be stopped. With regard to a bike tax the bike would need a number plate for the rule to be enforced as anyone can buy a second hand bike.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Liphookean (23rd Dec 2020 - 14:13:26) D, thank you for at posing a sensible question. If you are asking in detail then, I do not know. Thankfully I am not involved in the black arts of government/ counsel/ highways funding. However the money was found to build a new relief road in Bordon. Many new homes are being built in Bordon, Liphook and probably Passfield which can require developer contributions into the community e.g. the Millennium Hall. The Government have announced a desire to spend on both the environment and infrastructure, which is all the more important with the post-Covid recession we will be in. When there is a want to achieve something good, a care to improve your community, a vision of a better way, then you would be surprised how obstacles, even money, can be overcome.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (23rd Dec 2020 - 17:50:46) I couldn't agree more, Liphookean. Governments of all shades have always found ways to get more money out of us. The window tax, the beard tax, insurance tax (cheers, Mr. Brown!) The covid recession will indeed last decades which is why, despite what politicians say (they do twist words after all, as was stated earlier on this thread) I can't see there being any spare cash for things like this. Unless we take money away from defence (which we've never needed more) education or healthcare (ditto) it would be unrealistic to expect it to come about at the present time without cyclists having to contribute something. I still think revenue raised by a cyclist registration scheme and by compulsory cyclist insurance a good place to start. It would, at least, determine how much demand there is for cycle lanes. Those who don't intend using them would not register or insure. I no longer use a bicycle but when I did I had third party insurance, it cost about nine quid in those days. Always handy if I ever found myself in a situation in which I was at fault, better than being sued and losing one's house.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (23rd Dec 2020 - 19:23:58) D, I have already said your plan will not work. Compulsory insurance will ONLY benefit the insurance company, not the community and along with your cyclist registration scheme, it will disproportionately affect people on low incomes and young people. The cheapest insurance for a family of four (4 bikes) are looking at a cost of at least £39.32p not including Personal Accident cover, the cheapest with Personal Accident in £62.96p. A family on a low income will not be able to afford that. If we refer to Liphookean's post: "Many new homes are being built in Bordon, Liphook and probably Passfield which can require developer contributions into the community e.g. the Millennium Hall." I do not see how it would be unfair to demand that they fully pay for it. So, no. We do not need one of your schemes which will make the poor worse off.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (24th Dec 2020 - 07:34:27) James, cyclist insurance would benefit the community through insurance premium tax, as does all insurances. I think less than £40 for a family of four very good value. I'm surprised at how little it has increased in twenty years. Maybe you've had no experience of matters pertaining to insurance yet. So, James, how would YOU fund cycle lanes?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Charlie (24th Dec 2020 - 10:32:31) D, I take it you are not aware that the majority of cyclists already have third party liability insurance in place. It comes as standard with most building and contents policies. Added to that most club cyclists are members of British Cycling, membership of which includes £10 million third party cover.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (24th Dec 2020 - 12:54:50) It may do now, Charlie but it didn't over twenty years ago which is why I took out separate cover. Thanks for the info all the same.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (24th Dec 2020 - 14:46:29) D, Read my responses. The developers should pay for them. I have said that numerous times on this thread now.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (24th Dec 2020 - 16:37:37) James, fine. What you don't realise is the developers can absorb the cost by increasing the price of each home to cover the extra expense. Maybe you don't yet have any experience of running a business and offsetting costs. In doing so it is always possible the extra cost may make the project unviable thereby depriving many "poor" people of the X% of social housing which would have come their way. Not to mention less work in the building trade and building materials supply chain, many of whom maybe "poor" people. All because James wants anyone but himself to pay for his cycle lane. Given your non-response to my post concerning insurance premium tax you obviously haven't heard if it. Oh dear.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - er (24th Dec 2020 - 21:59:50) Hi D, thanks for that, I enjoy the giggles on here as much as the serious stuff too! A few thoughts: Liphookean, I'm sure most of the developers money in Bordon has already been spent in Bordon, I doubt they're going to spend it on a cycle path to Liphook, why not Farnham or Alton, in fact what is so special about Liphook to Bordon, there are thousands of miles of country roads without cycle paths, there isn't the money to upgrade them all, if any! I agree with D et al that a cycle tax or insurance tax towards cycle lanes would make sense, we all have to learn that nothing is really really free, if you want something done for you, sometimes you have to do more than demand and demand and put your hand in your pocket, cycling isn't free anyway, look at the multi thousand pound carbon or titanium things the lycra brigade ride, even kids bikes are hundreds of pounds, not to mention the electric bikes, then there's the gear, wet weather, dry weather etc etc! James. insurance wouldn't just benefit the insurance industry, it would benefit the people cyclists crash into, remember that lady in London, £39 a year for 4 people isn't bad in the real world for third party liability! Charlie, home insurance automatically covers third party negligence claims whilst out cycling, are you sure? I did google it earlier at work and found (possibly) the same article you read which did claim this (can't find it now), but really? I've never heard of it when renewing my household insurance, maybe the article is wrong? In all my time renewing household insurance never came across a policy that covered you for third party accident claims whilst off the property or involved in sports etc. Cover for bike theft yes. Please let me know more, I am actually really interested, do you know which insurers do this, is it under buildings or contents or is it a separate addition to the policy? I would actually quite like this type of policy as I and my family do a lot of cycling and everybody is so litigious nowadays, I'm thinking otherwise of joining Cycling UK just for the cover! Happy Christmas!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Charlie (24th Dec 2020 - 22:57:17) Merry Christmas to you too Er. May I suggest that rather than googling, you look at your policy documents. You will find this or similar "Personal Liability Your liability in a personal capacity. This includes accidents from your leisure activities such as golf or cycling."

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Hal (27th Dec 2020 - 14:04:28) Just as a side note, if you are cycling down the A3 towards Liphook from Hindhead, the pavement/path does continue all the way but it's on the other side of the carriageway so you just need to go through the underpass and rejoin it on the other side. :-)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Motorists (27th Dec 2020 - 14:20:26) Personal insurance policies only cover the policy holder it doesn’t cover if a cyclist runs into a vehicle or damages properties. That’s why they should have a separate on road policy to safeguard any damage they do.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Sarah (27th Dec 2020 - 16:07:30) Can I just add that there might not be many cycling accidents officially reported on this stretch of road, but as a Passfield resident I can report having scooped a couple of cyclists up off the road through Passfield when they’ve been knocked sideways off their bikes by passing vehicles. Happily with no serious injuries, more through luck than anything else.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (27th Dec 2020 - 20:13:47) D, Let's say 500 houses are built, it costs approximately 200k per KM of cycle lane. Liphook to Bordon, From the A3 Bridge (Headley Road) to the junction of Liphook road / Mill Lane (Lindford - easy access to Bordon) road is 2.9 miles, which is 4.6km. That is around £920k. 920,000 / 500 = a house price increase £1840. The average price of a house in Liphook is £511,338 the average value of a house in Liphook is £554,355. That takes it to around £513,178. Not exactly a detrimental increase if you are going to be buying a house. You mention social housing, what social housing? Take the development next to the green, on Midhurst Road, the only social housing there is 6 1xbedroom flats, not exactly fit for a family. How would building a cycle lane, decrease the amount of people working in the building trade and affect the supply chain? That makes no sense. D, If I could pay for the cycle lane I would. I'm a sport student, I actually understand the importance of fitness, and how important this can be, and how it can save organisations such as the NHS thousands of pounds, by promoting a healthy lifestyle, decreasing the risk of cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, and other conditions such as osteoporosis. Thanks for making me laugh as usual! Sarah, couldn't agree more! Many cyclists do not report incidents due to a lack of evidence, even when the cyclist has been injured. Hope you all had a good Christmas!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (27th Dec 2020 - 20:47:41) James, osteoporosis cannot be prevented by a healthy lifestyle. Maybe you have no experience of working with elderly people yet. Maybe you just have no experience.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (27th Dec 2020 - 22:16:42) D, betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/... Get your facts right.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Joe (27th Dec 2020 - 22:46:19) D osteopororis can be prevented by eating the right food with the right vitamins and by giving up alcohol. Most illnesses are brought on by an unhealthy diet and lifestyle which has to be started when young. Both are important, but a good healthy organic diet is the key. Look at the Royal Family Apparently Kate Middleton follows a diet based on mostly raw fruit and veg and little alcohol and sugar. She looks fabulous. The queen mother lived to ripe old age eating only organic food.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Penny Williamson (28th Dec 2020 - 09:38:06) The Queen mother also drank alcohol, smoked cigarettes and ate chocolate! Good for her.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (28th Dec 2020 - 11:36:58) James, how can you possibly be a "student" of any sort? You would sit in class all day constantly telling your teacher they are wrong and then presenting them with some piece of drivel you cobbled together off the internet in a vain attempt to prove them wrong. If you are typical of what the education system is producing today then I want my money back.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (28th Dec 2020 - 13:26:34) D, It is called a student-teacher relationship. If a teacher says something wrong I will correct them and like wise. You are just upset that I proved you wrong. I agree, the education system does not need to improve. I believe we are around 12th best in the world, we should be 1st, this is something you can bring up with your good conservative friend Damian Hinds.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (28th Dec 2020 - 13:34:57) *Education system does need to improve

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - N (28th Dec 2020 - 13:51:27) I have osteoporosis because I have a hereditary autoimmune disease that has affected my lungs and I've been on Steroid treatments most of my life. Steroids have given me osteoporosis, not alcohol or a bad diet !!!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Ian (28th Dec 2020 - 14:26:26) Of course James isn’t a student, he’s a know-all, never wrong, has an expert opinion on absolutely every topic on Talkback. He’s probably the most informed and intelligent person he has ever encountered. We should feel privileged to receive his many contributions!!!!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Just saying (28th Dec 2020 - 15:42:27) Going back to the original question all the money that the developers have to pay goes into the pot at EHDC. Liphook sees very little of it. If the developers were made to build more roads to carry all the extra traffic that would be a much better solution. Liphook cannot take anymore traffic through the Square something has to be done.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Ian (28th Dec 2020 - 17:31:25) The traffic in the square is fine except during the school run, used to be much worse when the A3 run through the square! Too many small minded Liphook residents have no concept beyond their small local world, traffic is way worse elsewhere with much longer delays throughout the day!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Life Resident (28th Dec 2020 - 19:13:03) Ian thanks for calling Liphook residents small minded great.I think the boots on the other foot.You seem dead against getting traffic away from our Conservation Square that’s what the bypass was supposed to do . But this has not happen. When the square was revamped the idea was to semi pedestrianised it. What a lovely thought. So Ian please stop calling liphook people small minded.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Ian (28th Dec 2020 - 19:32:00) Life resident, just to confirm (as you well know) not labelling all Liphook residents small minded, just those that fit the description, “if the hat fits.......”

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Life Resident (28th Dec 2020 - 20:30:57) Ian I think The hat fits you perfectly.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (28th Dec 2020 - 22:31:45) James, it's all very well you saying "education standards need to improve" but it only takes one precocious pratt disrupting the class then the teacher gets behind with their schedule which then impedes everyone. I know you're going to demand "Where's your evidence!" Look in the mirror, Sunshine.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jen (28th Dec 2020 - 22:45:43) Sorry to be taking this conversation away from the cycle path theme, but I felt I should balance what James and Joe have said about osteoporosis being preventable, There are many risk factors for osteoporosis that a person cannot change through diet and lifestyle. Here are some from the Royal Osteoporosis Society's website. Your genes: Your genes determine the potential size and strength of your skeleton. Research shows that if one of your parents broke their hip, you are more likely to break a bone yourself. Ageing: From your late thirties, the amount of bone tissue you have starts to naturally decrease. This happens at different rates in different people. As you get older, your bone tissue loses strength and becomes more likely to break in general, regardless of your bone density. Becoming less steady on your feet also becomes more likely with age. This increases your risk of slipping or tripping, and breaking a bone in a fall. Being a woman: Osteoporosis and broken bones are more common in women than men. Your bones lose strength at a faster rate after the menopause. This is because levels of oestrogen (the female sex hormone that helps keep bones strong) decrease. Women tend to live longer, on average, so are more likely to live with the lower bone strength that comes with age. Women tend to have smaller bones than men. Having bigger bones is found to reduce the risk of broken bones. Being of Caucasian or Asian origin: If you are of Afro-Caribbean origin, your risk of osteoporosis and broken bones is lower than those of Caucasian or Asian origin, because your bones are bigger and stronger. Medications that increase risk:: If you are taking one of these medications, talk to your doctor. They can suggest ways to limit the effects on your bones. Don’t make any changes without talking to your doctor first. You may do yourself more harm than good. Medications Known to affect bone strength: • glucocorticoid (steroids) tablets, if taken for more than three months • anti-epileptic medications • breast cancer treatments, such as aromatase inhibitors • prostate cancer treatments that affect either: o the production of the male hormone testosterone, or o the way it works in the body Medications used for people who have undergone gender confirmation, especially if it's discontinued The Following May affect bone strength, but more research is needed:: • medications to reduce inflammation of the stomach and oesophagus (proton pump inhibitors (PPIs)) • diabetic medications in the glitazone group, including pioglitazone • injectable progestogen contraceptives, such as Depo Provera • some medicines used for mental health conditions, such as: o tricyclic antidepressants o selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) Medical conditions that increase risk: If you have one of these medical conditions, talk to your doctor. Proper care of these conditions often reduces their effect on your bone health. Known to affect bone strength: • rheumatoid arthritis • low levels of the sex hormone oestrogen in women, as a result of: o early menopause o having a hysterectomy with removal of ovaries, before the age of 45 o anorexia nervosa o Turner’s syndrome o excessive exercise • low levels of the sex hormone testosterone in men, as a result of: o surgery for some cancers o Klinefelter syndrome o Kallman syndrome o naturally lower testosterone levels • hyperthyroidism, in which levels of thyroid hormone are abnormally high • parathyroid disease, in which levels of parathyroid hormone are abnormally high • conditions that affect the absorption of food, such as: o Crohn’s o coeliac disease • conditions that cause long periods of immobility, such as stroke The Following May affect bone strength, but more research is needed: • diabetes • HIV (AIDS) • liver disease • cystic fibrosis • dementia • Parkinson’s disease Organ transplant recipients and people with some respiratory diseases may also be at more risk, although more research is needed to understand why.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (29th Dec 2020 - 07:19:02) Joe, the Royal family having the best healthcare in the world may be a factor as well, maybe? None of the senior Royal's would ever be diagnosed with stage four cancer, for example. In their case it would be detected and dealt with very early on. I know George VI was but I should imagine they have frequent medicals now which are not available to the rest of us. I'm grateful to Jen for her post.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Joe (29th Dec 2020 - 11:35:54) Hi D yes it is a factor in fact I was once treated in london on the NHS by one of the Queens consultants and yes the bedside manner was as if I was having tea at the Ritz! I Still stand by my post that an organic diet based on food grown at Sandringham Balmoral, or Prince Charles' estates can be a major factor in their good health. Charles at over 70 had coronavirus but very mildly.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (29th Dec 2020 - 15:01:51) oh D your language towards me is becoming rude and untoward. Until you get some manners I will no longer be corresponding with you. I will however still be putting my opinion on threads. You appear to believe that because I am young and have opinions I am the rude and disrespectful student in class. You could not be further from the truth. Your attitude to younger people is incredibly disrespectful.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Ian (29th Dec 2020 - 17:16:24) James, the scorn you receive is not because you are young, it’s because you are an arrogant know all, lacking in humility and I have to say, intelligence!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Penny Williamson (29th Dec 2020 - 17:20:33) Thank you Jen for your very informative post. I did know some of the content but certainly not all of it. I would not normally support deviation from a Thread but in this case it was most welcome as the posts from two posters here get sillier and sillier. Trying to outdo each other with pointless point scoring.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (29th Dec 2020 - 17:55:39) Did you ever find those three missing letters, Penny?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (29th Dec 2020 - 20:59:22) Ian, You appear to be upset because I say stuff that is factual. If you can find something that disputes that then let me know. I also strongly believe a factor into D's aggression towards me is because of my age, as mentioned in another thread a few months ago. You must look up the definition of arrogance Ian, I believe I do not fit the criteria of that definition. There is arrogance and then there is a debate. Two very different things. Everything I say is backed up with evidence, so saying I am not intellectual is just not truthful Ian. I believe you are upset because I corrected you on using pronouns a few months ago; I think that may have hurt your ego. Jen, Thank You for posting that. I will do some more research into that so I can understand osteoporosis better. Be assured however, that when I said exercise prevented it what I meant to say was that it can help you with the effects. As exercises effects bone density helping to prevent fractures etc. Have a good evening Jen.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Ian (29th Dec 2020 - 21:22:39) Well done James, you’ve just confirmed my appraisal of you for all to see! And just for the record I don’t think you upset anyone on this site, just make us laugh!!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (29th Dec 2020 - 22:54:22) Ian, If you have enough intellect to tell me how I proved your point please explain; otherwise I believe this thread has run its course.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Ian (30th Dec 2020 - 10:29:47) James, if you do not have enough intellect to see for yourself how you proved my point then indeed this thread has run its course

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (30th Dec 2020 - 13:43:45) As the old adage goes, James, "If you can't take it don't dish it out."

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James2 (30th Dec 2020 - 16:02:15) All through this thread "D" has gone on about the cycle path on the A3. Yes what a complete waste of money and opportunity. But not for the reason "D" means. Anyone who complains that there are not many cyclists on this route has clearly never tried using it!! You feel completely unsafe on it with cars whizzing past you going at least 70mph. Coupled with the petrol and diesel exhaust fumes. It is shocking designers thought it was ok to have no barrier between cyclists and cars going at that speed. Shameful that people even thing cyclists should be using it. Clearly anyone complaining of it's poor use has never even considered riding a bike for their health. As for the cost of creating cycle paths.... if you want to encourage people to have healthy exercise and reduce their carbon footprint then cycle paths are an investment to peoples health, for the environment and the future generations of this country.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Penny Williamson (30th Dec 2020 - 17:47:09) D What do you mean by "Did you ever find those three missing letters, Penny?" Please let me know as I am genuinely puzzled.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (30th Dec 2020 - 18:02:55) Hello, James2. As it happens I used to cycle from Liphook into Greatham every day along this route and I found the cycle path along the A3 safer than cycling through Liphook. I did this for many years until on the way home one day in August a vehicle pulling out of the layby opposite The Anchor didn't see me and I ended up pushed onto the wrong side of the road in front of a lorry. I went back to my car after that. The only problems I had with the cycle lane was broken down cars parked on it but that didn't happen often. I mentioned the perimeter track, absolute delight to cycle on with easy access at the top of the Longmoor/Greatham road. On a good day I could do the circuit in less than half hour but with these modern hi-tech bikes I expect it can be done quicker.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Penny Williamson (1st Jan 2021 - 10:09:25) D you still haven't answered my question which was what do you mean by your question in this Thread directed at me "Did you ever find those three missing letters, Penny?". If you feel you need to ask a mysterious question which I cannot answer because I don't know to what you are referring, you might at least have the courtesy to reply. You are very vocal on this site so you obviously have the time, Thank you in anticipation and I wish you a Happy New Year.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (1st Jan 2021 - 10:23:07) Hello, Penny, I was referring to our exchange on the "appreciation" thread posted by Dave on 2nd May. It was intended as a good humoured jibe and no offence was intended in any way. I hope you had a good new year and may I wish you well for 2021. Can't possibly be as bad as 2020.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Local Resident (8th Jan 2021 - 09:14:52) Just to book end this thread. Yesterday I cycled from Liphook to Petersfield via Rake - and then Haslemere to Liphook via the back route in the evening ( a complicated work day for me yesterday...) Again – the Rake route is crying out for a cycle path. There are acres of space on the route – it is not as if we are working to establish an urban route like the A24 between Tooting and Balham (see national press for details). This leads me to rank the main routes out of Liphook in order of risk. (My tongue is in my cheek people – don’t hate on me...!) 1. Liphook to Haslemere via the main road – suicidal. Just don’t do it. Ensure your will is up to date if you do. 2. Liphook to Bordon via the Headley Road – also scary. Think very hard before doing it. Watch out for vans and pickup trucks. 3. Liphook to Petersfield via Rake– scary. Passable with extreme care, and much illegal riding on the pavement. 4. Liphook to Bordon via the back route. OK, just be careful on the Standford stretch. 5. Liphook to Haslemere via Hewshott – actually pretty OK, apart from the mud and wintry crap all over the road. Over and out. :)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James2 (9th Jan 2021 - 11:09:33) You also take your life in your hands on the three roundabouts in the centre of Liphook. I lost count of the times clearly the driver didn't see me. It seems drivers don't expect there to be mad people actually cycling on the roads in liphook where 99.999% of all journeys are by car. I read with interest D's last post. Where he had issue on his bike in the centre of liphook outside the Anchor which stopped him cycling, thereby demonstrating the need we have in liphook for protected cycling. On a positive note. In the summer if you make it to "The Links" alive you can take the bridleway to the golf course and then follow really good route (tarmac or solid bridleway path) all the way to the Deer's hut/ Griggs green. In the winter to avoid the mud you have to carry a bit further along the main road from "The Links" to access the route across the golf course to avoid the muddy bridleway. This avoids liphook centre + the roundabouts and is indeed a useable "relief road" at least to cyclists and pedestrians.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Motorists (9th Jan 2021 - 11:54:27) Just driven through Liphook cyclists riding down Portsmouth Road all in Black very hard to see I come across this very often why do cyclists where black. Please wear very bright colours fluorescent if possible.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (9th Jan 2021 - 13:10:31) As James has seen fit to take advantage of my reply to James2 I'll take advantage of one of his:- If cyclists are fifteen times more likely to be killed on the roads than motorists, surely there is a good case to ban bicycles on the roads on grounds of safety. Good case of "be careful what you wish for."

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - lac (11th Jan 2021 - 10:06:22) I do wish people would stop trying to score points on this forum. The UK approach to cycling is appalling. It seems to consist of a bizarre mix of "leisure routes" designed for tourism, lines painted on busy roads and signs erected on muddy bridleways indicating cycling is allowed. Consequently, we have people too scared to cycle on roads (including me), and with no coherent network. Try cycling from Liphook to Grayshot for example. In many parts of Europe, cycles are separated from cars with dedicated cycle paths (not mudbaths). It is easy to cycle round Copenhagen for example. Cyclists are physically separated from cars with proper road architecture (not disgusting orange bollards), their own traffic lights, dedicated sufficient cycle parking etc. The result is that most short journeys are done by bike. In rural areas, the same applies. Local towns and villages are connected by a network of dedicated cycle paths. As a result, traffic congestion is low and local journeys are usually by bike. For some reason, be it planning, bureaucaracy, lack of vision, lethargy or a combination of these, the UK seems incapable of planning and building anything these days. It is amazing that our own area, with a myriad of bridleways, footpaths and disused railway lines, not to mention the acres of National Trust land, does not have a coherent dedicated and well maintained cycle network. Think how much easier it would be if our children could cycle safely to the Bohunt with secure dedicated bike storage on site. Come on politicians and planners, I dare you to create something excellent, not just a "tick box" make do and mend solution.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (11th Jan 2021 - 10:47:59) Iac, at the end of the day, someone has to pay. You mention other European countries, some of those have a basic rate of income tax a lot higher than ours so of course they can afford cycle lanes. I used to cycle all the roads mentioned on this thread and I can't say I ever felt nervous.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Julian (11th Jan 2021 - 11:47:57) I have been looking at a cycle route between Liphook and Bordon for some time. I have had meetings with Hampshire Highways our local Councillors and the National Trust and the discussions were extremely positive. The NT manage most of the land in between the two towns and there is potential for cycle routes to be routed through some of our most beautiful countryside, away from any roads and with limited road crossings. I am up to the point where I need to submit my suggestions back to the NT and have no doubt that Liphook & Bramshott would support this. Funding is always a question, however I hoped to establish the routes first. If anyone would be able to get together in this as a community project team please feel free to contact me on 01428 751404. Thanks, Julian.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - M (11th Jan 2021 - 14:08:14) @ Julian Sounds to me you're a great community minded guy. Have you been in contact with the Neighbourhood Plan about your thoughts/proposals? I believe they are looking for any help or ideas with regards infrastructure improvements so your plans, I'm sure, will be of great interest to them.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Keith Birch (13th Jan 2021 - 10:30:47) A bit more openness would be helpful, please publish the route options being considered. Avoid make the same mistake as the Longmoor route along side the A325 and use shingle surface, as this limits the bicycles that will use the route because of increase risk in punctures. Plus Tarmac needs less on going maintenance, than shingle. Consideration of widening pathways to dual use would increase utilisation and occupy minimum extra space where paths exist I.e. Liphook to Passfield

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - N (13th Jan 2021 - 12:00:37) You won't get a cycle path from liphook to passfield. A few years ago we applied for a proper footpath but the national Trust natural England refused it. Onsite meeting with them and highways.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (14th Jan 2021 - 10:56:36) Julian's proposal would appear to appease all the criticisms levelled at the existing cycle lanes in Liphook, I see no reason why the people on this thread commenting about the lack of cycle lanes shouldn't give him their full support. I think separate, self contained cycle lanes away from pedestrians and motorized traffic is an excellent idea. Given the pandemic and looking thereafter, do we really want sweaty, heavily panting cyclists passing close to pedestrians and the open nearside windows of cars spreading their aerosols? Probably not a good idea and certainly not in the spirit of social distancing. I wish you well with this, Julian.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Julian (14th Jan 2021 - 13:38:04) @ D - thank you for your comments. @ Keith - Yes and extremely valid points. @ N - the NT have refused many requests over years, however with the recent discovery of historical deeds I don't believe that they can. The NT should really support the community and its requirements. More on this later. @ M - I looked at the neighbourhood plan and when asked to stick on my "spot" and comment, but I fell off the edge of the map! It stopped at the bridge over the A3. I still commented but no contact yet. Neighbourhood plans seem exactly that, very localised. Do they take into account linking two neighbourhoods such as Liphook & Bordon? Ideally we need a District plan. As I mentioned, If anyone is able to give support s a community project please feel free to contact me on 01428 751404. I still await the phone to ring! I would welcome the opportunity to discuss this with the original poster if you can? If we remain positive we can achieve more.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Elizabeth (14th Jan 2021 - 22:18:14) Sounds like a great idea. Would be lovely to be able to cycle through those woods. (Even walk more safely away from the road.)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James2 (15th Jan 2021 - 10:46:37) Julian You can only be congratulated for getting so many positive comments on this thread (including some surprise ones - well done!!). Dedicated cycle routes are one of the ways we get more cyclists which is essential if we want to reverse climate change. re attracting supporters might be worth considering having an online group of some sort... were people can learn of your plans etc. Though I can understand you might not want to create a FB group... but certainly would be a way of other supporters to join you. Rather than people start calling phone numbers etc. Just a thought. Certainly I support this route and I know someone in Bordon who cycles to liphook often who would be interested.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Local Resident (18th Jan 2021 - 16:38:57) yes - count me in. I will be happy to give time and support to this. I nearly got squashed again this morning on the Passfield road - a pickup truck overtook me at speed, then decided to jam on the brakes to turn right, while the pickup truck following close behind was overtaking me. Milliseconds from disaster. Why is it always pickup trucks who try to kill me? And pickup trucks are a tax avoidance scam. Perhaps they are trying to silence me? :)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jennifer (19th Jan 2021 - 00:30:44) Julian, I'm intrigued to know what you mean by "The NT should really support the community and its requirements". The National Trust exists to conserve and preserve beautiful and rare places for present and future generations to enjoy. In our community, the local NT properties are our commons, which the NT manages, under the direction of Natural England, for the conservation of wildlife habitats - and thereby the promotion and preservation of biodiversity. Surely that is serving the community?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Local resident (24th Jan 2022 - 11:09:42) ****. UPDATE ***** It's finally happening. dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10432079/Highway-Code-overhaul-tells-cyclists-pedal-middle-road-takes-effect-DAYS From this weekend onwards, no longer can you try to kill me when I cycle from Liphook to Passfield. You know who you are, every single van driver and/or MPV on the school run. It was always illegal to actually kill me - now it is also illegal to drive in a manner which increases the chances of killing me. Ah...lol. I am sure it will make not one jot of difference. Sadly! Supplied twitter link replaced with this explaining article

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - er (24th Jan 2022 - 12:57:40) Very interesting Local Resident. I'm all for road safety especially bicycles which get very little joined up infrastructure outside of the big towns and cities. First impressions after a quick perusal, assuming it passes later this week I've never been sure about cycling in the middle of the road, I wouldn't think it's for me, plus it's very vague the wording, it seems to leave the decision of whether it's appropriate entirely up to the cyclist, some will decide it's appropriate to do 7mph in the middle of the road all the way to Bordon and I can't see that going well, but would you dare overtake and risk 3 or 6 points if the cyclist is one of those militant ones doing it deliberately with a camera and YouTube channel, I expect a few further back in the tail will try though! Not sure about the one that says pedestrians can use any part of the road or pavement including cycle paths unless specifically ordered not to, don't see cyclists or motorists quietly accepting that one! Not sure why cyclists should be entitled to use the road (and presumably hog the centre) if there's a dedicated cycle lane, what's the point of that other than upset some drivers? Not sure about giving way to pedestrians at road junctions even if there's no zebra crossing, can forsee a lot of rear enders and it will turn out a lot of people near junctions aren't even waiting to cross, just standing near a junction nattering, there's a lot of shoulds , more than musts in there too, big difference, and a lot of people won't even understand what's going on! No doubt we'll hear a lot more about this if it happens with clearer instructions or there will be a lot of confusion!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - James (25th Jan 2022 - 23:08:02) Hi er, Riding in the centre of the left is much safer. It keeps you away from the kerb (which is dangerous if you fall off) it also allows cars to see you much easier as you are not shoved off to the side. Have fun cycling!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - liz (26th Jan 2022 - 08:38:33) As far as I'm aware it is not just cars that will have to give way to pedestrians at junctions but also cyclists. That should be interesting!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - er (26th Jan 2022 - 13:27:34) Thanks James, I do love cycling and welcome moves to make it safer, I'd much prefer segregated cycle lanes though, cycling on these country lanes with National Speed Limit and driver's often doing more in both directions, passing with only a foot or two to spare, can't ever be safe, but the intentions no doubt are good, if a cheap way to pass the buck. Mind you, in some areas up to 50% of drivers and more of delivery drivers and lorry drivers did not pass a UK test, so I personally won't be cycling in the middle of the road hoping they're going to miss me better that way because it says they should in the Highway Code! Another noteworthy change in the law today, you now CANNOT open the car door with the hand which is closest to the door, or £1000 fine. You can only use the hand which is furthest away. Interestingly it occurs to me, as you go to open the door, your hand which was furthest from the door will now be closest. We may need a good lawyer, preferably Franz Kafka! 😁

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Mary W (29th Jan 2022 - 22:46:31) er - Not sure you have that right about opening the door with opposite hand to encourage you to see more - as far as I understand it, they say you should if possible not MUST. I don’t think there is any fine involved unless you cause an accident by opening the door without checking. I think it makes sense, though, anything to make passengers and drivers more aware of what is going on around them.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - cc (30th Jan 2022 - 01:32:30) Aged 17, when living in Canada, and returning to school after lunch, the driver of the car I passed opened the driver's door. SMASH! CRUNCH! >>> right between my eyes. Half an inch separated loss of an eye, but, two functioning eyes, several stiches later and a permanent scar, plus vivid black eyes, and a lesson I have practised for life as a driver: *always* check before opening the driver's door of your car. Still, for the only time in my life, a claim to fame: the incident appeared in the local press! P.S The driver owned the shop outside the accident - I was carried indoors unconscious - on awaking, I discarded my lunch in a vehement projectile. Sweet revenge, served cold. 'Always look on the bright side of life, da dum, da dum'!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Claire (30th Jan 2022 - 08:29:45) I’m a pedestrian, a motorist and a cyclist. Helmet cam is a must while cycling as footage can be used to track dangerous drivers. Considering using one as a pedestrian as so many drivers seem to think that the red light on a pedestrian crossing doesn’t apply to them. As I driver I just endeavour to be courteous.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Sarah (30th Jan 2022 - 09:48:19) Just in response to Local Resident, cyclists cannot ride in the centre of the road everywhere. The new changes say you can on quiet roads (which the road from Liphook to Passfield sadly is no longer), or in slow moving traffic etc. I’m afraid you still have to keep left on the Liphook to Passfield road.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - liz (30th Jan 2022 - 17:43:52) Unfortunately dangerous cyclists cannot be tracked.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - lsc (1st Feb 2022 - 10:41:56) I reiterate a plea made previously on this forum. Cyclists at 10mph don't fare well when meeting cars doing 30mph to 70mph. It's simple physics. We can debate Highway Codes, cyclists versus cars versus lorries etc but cycling will always be dangerous when mixed with cars/lorries/busses. The ONLY solution is separation. For example, very few people drive around Copenhagen. They cycle. Why? They are physically completely separated from traffic. No white lines on roads like here. Short rural journeys in large chunks of Europe (Germany/Holland) are done by cycles on separate footpaths/cycle paths. I'm baffled why this countries infrastructure builders have neglected this approach. Instead we have ill thought out road grabbing schemes and an apparent war against motorists. To encourage people to cycle you need separated cycle paths and somewhere to securely park your bike. Simples. In this area we have miles of bridleways and hardly used footpaths. To get from Passfield to Liphook there are lots of routes but they tend to be a muddy mess. Cost to improve - very little. Chances of it happening. Nil!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Local Resident (1st Aug 2023 - 09:33:27) Just bumping this one. Any developments locally? EHDC? National Trust? It just seems such a 'no brainer' to me. And the longer nothing happens, the more I feel that all this endless talk about the 'Climate Crisis' is all just that - talk. If we can't embrace public transport and bicycles, the polar bears are screwed. Two pick-up trucks tried really hard to kill me on this road yesterday. One was bright red. One was plastered with adverts from a tattoo parlour (you know who you are) It is the pickup trucks, the white vans and the 'Chelsea tractors' who are the worst offenders. Someone ought to write a book about the anthropology of this. :)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Cyclist (1st Aug 2023 - 10:19:15) I agree with Local Resident, I cycle - just for fitness - around the area and try to go out really early to avoid any issues with cars / vans. Personally I think rags like the Daily Mail pitch a constant and unhelpful battle between motorists and cyclists. Most people are just going about their business and should be able to get to their destination without harm. Lately, I've noticed getting more and more close-passes and even had a motorist do a full brake-check on me which went so far as for me to skid and the back wheel to come up and loose control. This was on a long, straight stretch of road on a Sunday morning and the car simply overtook, pulled in and slammed on the brakes. Up to that point I was riding on the left, lights on, and had no interaction in any way with the motorist beforehand. So a plea - really would be great if we could just respect each other on the roads. We're all just trying to get to work or home in one piece.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - er (1st Aug 2023 - 11:08:02) Cyclist you make me laugh, yes as a cyclist I too want better cycle routes and everyone to 'just respect each other on the roads'. Then you launch straight into a divisive tirade against a widely read newspaper. Challenges to freedom of press is a slippery slope, I'm sure you didn't really intend to open up that argument here! YouTube is littered with videos made by cyclist activists attacking motorists, a lot of them make a career riding along traffic queues filming inside cars, I'm not blaming them, but if they spot a driver touching their phone whilst stationary with their handbrake on they send it to the police, their subscribers whoop with joy as mum loses her licence or dad loses his job, not saying motorists are blameless or breaking the law is ok, but it's not just the big fish these activists are after, it's the low hanging fruit and yes they've turned it into very them versus us war out there, so just to blame the media for reporting the news is a slippery slope! A lot of cyclists are useless, entitled bullies, but they are on two wheels and for that reason alone we should look out for them and the council should worry less about scrapping poor peoples cars and more about fixing potholes building safe infrastructure like better cycle paths, cycles and motorists will never mix safely at anything over 20mph and whilst 20 mph and plug in cars may work well in the Socialist Capital where the budget for public transport is £20 billion a year, out here where there is one bus a day and your work and kids schools can be 50 miles apart, blaming the motorist for everything isn't going to help much!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Motorist (1st Aug 2023 - 11:27:02) Cyclist do not pay tax or insurance they should. 90% ride in black clothes with head down a complete menace around these dark roads. Better to spend the money on repairing pot holes which are a dangerous to cyclists and motorcyclists as well as cars.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - passfield resident (1st Aug 2023 - 17:43:26) er- the Daily Mail is widely read. Doesn't mean it isn't a nasty, arrogant, gossip-filled pile of s**** t -it just means a lot of people are stupid or lazy enough to read it

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Wondering (1st Aug 2023 - 19:57:09) Passfield resident just wondering what news papers you read because you seem to not like the mail understatement. Most papers are the same completely rubbish.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jen (1st Aug 2023 - 20:45:12) Motorist - I'm pretty sure that all cyclists pay tax like everyone else, so I disagree with you there. However, I do agree that, curiously (considering their vulnerability) the majority do wear dark colours which can make them almost invisible, even in good light conditions. I think all cyclists - and indeed pedestrians if they are walking in the road where there are no pavements - should wear high visibility clothing or at least a hi-viz sash or armbands. Passfield Resident, I agree with your sentiments about the Daily Mail!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - passfield resident (1st Aug 2023 - 22:06:26) Wondering-I don't read a newspaper except to read Michael Atherton's cricket writing now and then.That is old-fashioned proper writing that you don't find so much in newspapers now.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Motorists (1st Aug 2023 - 22:39:43) Jen I don’t think cyclists pay road tax and I don’t think they carry insurance to cover any damage they may cause. That’s what I meant.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Wondering (1st Aug 2023 - 22:43:42) Passfield resident if you don’t read papers then how do you know the mail is as you so elaborately described. Heresay probably.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Pete (2nd Aug 2023 - 09:50:18) Wondering- You don't really need to read the paper to know what its about you just need to glance at the rabid right wing scaremongering headlines interspersed with tittle tattle gossip on the cover.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jen (2nd Aug 2023 - 11:09:24) It's no secret that the Daily Mail prints a great deal of absolute rubbish! It beats me why anybody buys it. Maybe they just buy it for the crossword or the sports page? In 2019 Microsoft, for example, warned users of Microsoft Edge clicking onto the Daily Mail website that “this website generally fails to maintain basic standards of accuracy and accountability” and “has been forced to pay damages in numerous high-profile cases”. The message told readers to proceed carefully given that the Daily Mail website "regularly publishes content that has damaged reputations, caused widespread alarm, or constituted harassment or invasion of privacy”. Similarly, Wikipedia will not accept citations that link to the Daily Mail because it is not deemed to be a trustworthy source. As the owner of Wikipedia has said, the Daily Mail has mastered the art of printing articles that are not true, using click-bait headlines to lure readers.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - passfield resident (2nd Aug 2023 - 11:51:11) Wondering-I used to read the Daily Mail ( or rather mostly just turn the pages for something to do) when I was at my dad's house. He was a kind, tolerant man and I was always sad when he quoted something he'd seen in it-he didn't watch much TV news so the moronic stuff in the mail made up most of his news input. Still, I did use them to light the wood burner after he'd finished with them. Now someone will pick an argument about wood burners. Ho hum.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Resident (2nd Aug 2023 - 12:48:00) As usual this thread has degenerated into slagging of newspapers pathetic. Anyway I agree with motorist cyclists should pay road tax and insurance and be made to wear luminous clothing and not ride two abreast.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Bob Cocker (2nd Aug 2023 - 14:02:41) I agree. Why should cyclists have any provision made for them when they don't pay any "road" tax... While we're on the subject, me in my council tax band G home should have priority over all the riff raff in their scruffy band A flats.... After all, they're hardly contributing are they. They should empty my bins daily, and do the riff raff once a quarter... Ridiculous argument. As an aside, my 10 year old diesel is nil rate for "road tax" (actually VED). Morally, am I able to drive it or should I get on my bike... Bob.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jane (2nd Aug 2023 - 14:14:02) Maybe check out the draft Neighbourhood Development Plan as that talks a lot about cycling/walking routes through the village. Website for the current consultation is bramshottandliphookndp.uk

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - passfield resident (2nd Aug 2023 - 14:14:05) Resident-the threads always degenerate. It's the nature of the internet. I guarentee you wouldn't call me pathetic to my face-that's another advantage of the internet-no accountability.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - er (2nd Aug 2023 - 14:22:14) passfield resident. Your dad was a kind, tolerant man and he read the Daily Mail. You don't. Sorry, how does this help your case??.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - passfield resident (2nd Aug 2023 - 15:19:57) er-you seem not to be able to follow an argument, so no use repeating it

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Retired (2nd Aug 2023 - 16:06:48) Passfield Resident you say that all threads degenerate because of the internet. Reading through a lot of the threads on this site you seem to move away from the original thread a lot . You seem to have quite a different view to the majority on a number of threads you’re prerogative but don’t decry others for their views . As an example your dad was a very nice man and he read the mail as thousands of others do and they all are probably very decent people. I personally love reading Little John he is spot on most of the time and very humorous. But all media should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Joe (3rd Aug 2023 - 18:49:32) Jane new cycle paths via the Neighbourhood plan would only come about if paid for by housing developers who will build lots more houses in Liphook to enable them to fund the wish list of the NDP. Be careful that people understand this link properly.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (4th Aug 2023 - 11:40:31) Is there any demand for cycle paths? How many bicycles per hour go through the square? Nowhere near enough to justify the expense. Even the annual Liphook bike ride has bit the dust through lack of interest.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Pete (4th Aug 2023 - 15:24:39) D-If there was cycle infrastructure between Liphook and Bordon, a small distance in cycle terms, I would cycle to work saving myself a lot of money and getting fit at the same time. As it stands it is too dangerous, I see a few hardy souls doing it but they are far braver than me. Ref cyclists and tax, firstly road vehicle tax does not go straight toward road maintenance it goes into the general pot. The amount of vehicle duty collected would nowhere near cover the actual expenditure budgets so we are all paying driver or not. Secondly does anybody seriously believe that cyclists cause wear and tear to the roads causing expenditure on them, Bikes are around 20kg, cars around 1000-3500kg and Lorries 7500-28000kg. Maybe if real money was spent on real cycle schemes that work cyclists wouldn't mind paying cycle path tax. Then maybe the Highways budget ought to be funded solely by vehicle duty with the huge hike that would involve.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Motorists (4th Aug 2023 - 16:05:38) Pete you could take this further motorist are taxed on a sliding scale very heavily the larger the vehicle. A very small amount goes on roads cyclist pay nothing but roads are made smaller with cycle lanes making it more difficult for motorists as you say cycle paths very good but cyclists should pay for them. So if cyclists were made to pay tax and insurance it would level up a tiny bit . Cyclist are trying to take over the roads which is not how it should be . Have their own paths as in other countries.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Pete (4th Aug 2023 - 16:34:37) Motorist- I am far from anti car and think the sliding scale taking weight into account is actually a great idea but in reality this isn't the issue. As you say other countries that have invested properly have separate cycle lanes that generally lead to inter transport hubs. The issue is lack of imagination, lack of forward thought and lack of will not lack of money. Cyclists trying to take over the road is a bit dramatic when you think of the vast disparity in numbers but I should point out by the rules of the road pedestrians take priority followed by non motorised transport followed by motorised vehicles.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jen (4th Aug 2023 - 17:40:26) @Motorists, cyclists are not taking over the roads! I think you'll find that it's actually cars (and other motorised vehicles) that have taken over the roads! Motorised vehicles are large, fast and dangerous for other road users, to the extent that those other users (ie pedestrians, cyclists, horseriders) have, apart from the few brave souls that one occasionally sees, been bullied off the roads.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Motorists (4th Aug 2023 - 21:26:42) Yes Jen you’re probably right but all those you mentioned don’t pay anything towards roads no taxes so are on the roads free of charge.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Cyclist Walker Motorist (4th Aug 2023 - 23:34:56) Jen, not totally disagreeing but I think you are missing the point. Cars, vans and lorries didn't bully cycles off the road, there was never historically much cycle traffic in the UK, unlike countries like China, it was horses then the motor car came initially for rich people, but after WWII for ordinary people who had been stuck on the land or in villages or domestic staff as peasants suddenly could commute for better paid jobs and freedom we shouldn't underestimate the good it does for social mobility.. I don't think traditionally there was much cycling between villages and nowadays it's 99% either for fun, fitness or leisure. The lycra brigade are a relatively knew, militant phenomena who seem to want the roads all to themselves and the motorised commuters to either cycle or go back to being peasants. Yes it would be nice to have more cycle routes between villages, too many are rambling, muddy tracks and although there are a lot of footpaths, there you have another issue, pedestrians refusing to share their paths with dangerous furious cyclists! First thing would help is if we opened our footpaths up to cyclists where possible. Look at the route from Haslemere, it stops at Bramshot Common car park then you have to cycle on the A3 with lorries doing 60 and 70 no thanks, yet it's illegal to cycle along Bramshot Common and noone is bothered to put a simple cycle path in linking to Hewshot Lane, probably because it's noones responsibility but it wouldn't take much to finish that route off, still it will never happen it's all pie in the sky, this isn't London it's just another place to dump London's overflow and forget about, places cost half as much but you get a tenth of the facilities!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Pete (5th Aug 2023 - 07:51:44) Motorist- Ref your reply to Jen. Everybody that pays taxes of any kind pays towards the roads, It is all one big pot, even those that don't drive or cycle pay out of general taxation. Vehicle excise tax does not go straight to the roads.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (5th Aug 2023 - 15:09:19) If this route were to come about it wouldn't be long until we see posts on this website complaining about pedestrians using it. If cyclists aren't moaning about motorists then they moan about pedestrians. I was recently verbally abused by three lycra brigades riding three abreast going past Radford Park. Strange how people are only rude to you when they can make a quick getaway. I've cycled Headley Road many times and I don't think it any worse than any other road in Liphook. Any form of transport has its dangers.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Local Resident (5th Aug 2023 - 19:47:09) Blimey - I was just asking if there was any developments regarding the idea of building a cycle path from Bordon to Liphook. I didn't mean to start World War Three. :) Thanks for the heads up about the Bramshott and Liphook plan. Nothing in that as far as I can see. I guess it's just a pipe dream. And if that extraordinary outburst by Rishi Sunak about air travel last week is an indication of the 'realpolitik' of that surrounds the 'Climate Crisis', in ten years time I will be nearly run over by electric pick up trucks, not petrol powered ones. Which is really rather missing the point, I fear. The polar bears are done for...!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (6th Aug 2023 - 09:14:49) At the time of the pandemic the dual carriageway sections of the coast road in Shoreham were cut in half and the inner lane used as a cycleway. This route ran a good few miles but was recently scrapped because firstly it increased traffic congestion (obviously) and secondly very few cyclists were using it. I remember something similar in Petersfield but that was scrapped too. I struggle to see the connection between the pandemic and biycles but there you go.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Jen (6th Aug 2023 - 10:36:42) That Shoreham scheme sounds great, D, but did it actually go anywhere - or was it merely a short stretch of cycle path along a road that didn't join up to other cycle paths that would enable cyclists to get from a to b (or c or d etc)? There's no point in having a cycle route that ends abruptly and forces the traveller onto a road. They might as well just use the road in the first place, which some brave souls do. Most of us deem the roads too dangerous. A cycle path should be a continuous route, where people can cycle unhindered and separate from motorised traffic. They should not have to stop at every side road: cars turning into or out of the side roads are the ones that should be forced to stop. So, the reasons why cycle paths currently are used very little are two-fold. Firstly, keen cyclists and those who take part in cycling as a sport/fitness hobby (the sort that some people refer to as the "lycra brigade") are not going to want to be slowed down by having to stop and wait for traffic at every single side road (which cyclists and pedestrians still have to do on cycle paths, despite them actually now having been officially recognised as having priority at those junctions). Instead they prefer to use the road in order to be able to continue without having to keep stopping. Secondly, the other types of cyclist - the ocasional "pop to the shops by bike" type and the vast numbers of potential cyclists - i.e. the "I would really like to be able to cycle to places because it would keep me fitter, get me out in the fresh air, enable me to use the car less" types - don't cycle much (or at all) and don't use cycle lanes because of the danger from cars, because cycle lanes are often not separated from cars but are merely lines painted on a road, they don't join up, so people can't cycle from a to b and they often end abruptly and dangerously (like the one on the A3 between Hindhead and Liphook, which doesn't actually reach Liphook but chucks the cyclist out onto the dual carriageway). What we need to do is to encourage people to use their cars less and to walk and cycle more. The current situation does neither.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - local resident (6th Aug 2023 - 12:10:15) 'A Daniel come to Judgement' Jen - you have hit various nails firmly on the head. Thanks...!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - To old to cycle (6th Aug 2023 - 13:01:14) It’s quite obvious the roads around here are far to small to accommodate cyclists safely. People have to use cars to go about their daily tasks that cannot be done on a bike you can’t get away from that people that can’t walk far etc to spend millions on cycle paths only to be used by a few is not on . We pay very high taxes know and councils are strapped so cyclists are not a priority sorry.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - passfield resident (6th Aug 2023 - 15:39:17) Jen-you really shouldn't be posting on here-your arguments are far too sensible and well-expressed.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - D (10th Aug 2023 - 21:45:01) Jen, the scheme I refer to WAS a continuous cycle route from Shoreham and linked up with the existing cycle paths in Brighton. The idea was to enable Shoreham residents who work in Brighton (lots of them) to cycle to work but hardly no-one used it. They did try.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon - Cyclist (11th Aug 2023 - 08:24:04) @motorists (sic): Fairly predictable response, well done. BTW as I cyclist I do actually have insurance and personal liability up to £15m. That's a policy I have taken out. Also, I have cars and pay road tax on those. You could argue if I'm not in my car but on my bike I've paid 3 taxes - income tax (to purchase the bike), VAT (on the bike), and road tax (car sitting idle while on the bike). I will await the suitably blinkered responses and have a giggle later ... :)

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