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New crossing - Russ (27th Apr 2024 - 12:51:44) See the new crossing in Portsmouth road just wondering why they have spent all that money on a crossing that is not going to be used that much the crossing that was there was quite adequate. The crossing in the square is the most used and the community have been asking for it to be changed to a controlled crossing it’s the only one in the village that’s not controlled and is the one that should be all that money could have been used to alter it . Again councils not listening to the community all the surveys that we fill in seems not to have any affect.

Re: New crossing - AF (27th Apr 2024 - 13:58:43) Russ the crossing is for the hordes of Bohunt kids coming off the train as there is a footpath there that leads to the school, therefore at start and end of school it will be used alot.

Re: New crossing - S (27th Apr 2024 - 14:01:41) It’s a brilliant idea, perfect for the new rear entrance to the school, reduce the number of children in the square and hopefully improve traffic flow.

Re: New crossing - Russ (27th Apr 2024 - 14:54:20) Yes I do understand that but there are far more children crossing in the square and that holds the traffic up it doesn’t hold traffic up in Portsmouth road. The children come through the square to get their sweets and go to Sainsburys they are supposed to go via Portsmouth road but a great many don’t. And as the one in the square is the most used by everyone it just seems that the council are not prioritising it it should have been done in the first place. The same for the one in headley road for the junior schools totally ridiculous not being controlled it’s a nightmare getting in and out of the avenue children running across cars over taking to carry on down headley road an accident waiting to happen. That’s what I meant money not spend wisely.

Re: New crossing - Sam (27th Apr 2024 - 17:13:39) Did Russ speak to the council and pass his wisdom over? Probably not, just seen the crossing and decided on a rant. Either way the village comes to a standstill with kids crossing at school times so investment in keeping the kids safe and facilitating more efficient crossing for traffic.

Re: New crossing - Dev (27th Apr 2024 - 21:26:16) A new safe way to cross a busy road where lots of people speed. I agree, stupid idea.

Re: New crossing - Russ (28th Apr 2024 - 12:13:40) It seems that I have not made myself clear I’m totally in favour of safe crossing like the new one. My concern was the unsafe ones ie the square and headly road the ones most used by children that have had accidents on them. My opinion was the money should have been spent on upgrading those first as they are the only ones that are not controlled and are dangerous. Sam yes I have brought this up several times over the years along with many others of the same opinion. Having lived here all my life over 80 years now I have gained some wisdom as you say I have attended more council meetings and filled in more surveys and questionnaires than I care to remember spoken at EHDC meetings for our community . Attended the traffic survey in the avenue to assess the parking problem stood on the corner of headly road the avenue with a passed county councillor observing the chaos at school time and he agreeing that it was dangerous and should be a controlled crossing and suggesting that there should be no parking at school time from headly road to the avenue close turning that would make getting in and out of the avenue much better and safer but as you can see nothing ever happened. Tried to get a7.5 tonne limit on the avenue the same as Tower road for safety at school time but was told by a district councillor that they were not putting up any more signs in liphook because they could not afford to you could not make it up . So Sam I have tried my best to help my lovely village over many years to much to enter here perhaps you could share with us some of your success in the community it’s very difficult but you may have had more success than me .

Re: New crossing - Paul2 (28th Apr 2024 - 14:54:39) "The children come through the square to get their sweets ..." Think you'll find modern children are less about sweets and more about vaping and Class B's ...

Re: New crossing - Joe (28th Apr 2024 - 15:35:13) Russ I think the reason a new crossing was put in and the money not spent on upgrading existing crossings was that it was paid for by a developers’ money - reasoning behind this being that a sum of money has to be given over by the developers for a recognisably new installation, something concrete to have in return for new houses and more people. Repairs would not be in the same category.

Re: New crossing - Russ (28th Apr 2024 - 15:52:33) Paul2 just look at the paper sweet shop in the square he has to regulate how many go in at at time but never mind perhaps I’m wrong perhaps the next time a child is knocked down on the crossing it won’t end well I really hope not .

Re: New crossing - Russ (28th Apr 2024 - 17:18:17) Thanks Joe you’re probably right. But I still think that the two crossings are dangerous and our council should be pushing to have them upgraded as a priority.

Re: New crossing - Local (28th Apr 2024 - 18:58:20) Russ, can you be specific, there is a zebra crossing in the square and a few traffic light ones, what exactly is unsafe with these crossings, I thought zebras were safe especially the slow speeds cars are doing at school leaving time, is it the delays to motorists that bothers you? As for buying sweets, I guess that's their choice, we do not tend to order people to use a particular route in this country, we can only encourage a particular route and the new crossing will help keep more of them safe in a very dangerous spot where cars speed a lot. We don't need more crossings we just need cars to be more patient and obey the crossings we have.

Re: New crossing - Ann (28th Apr 2024 - 21:05:52) Local, the crossing in the square would be better if it had lights. You get a group of children crossing then just as they get across the other side more children step onto the crossing, therefore you get a queue of traffic. Sure traffic would flow better with lights.

Re: New crossing - Russ (28th Apr 2024 - 21:22:52) Sorry local I will do my best for most people understand but here goes. If you look about in other towns and cities crossing are controlled ie traffic lights to stop traffic to let the public cross. All the other crossings in liphook including the one outside Bohunt school are controlled the new one is controlled because the old type of zebra none controlled are dangerous especially in a situation like the centre of liphook very heavy traffic as headly road because sometimes children just walk out and older people sometimes miss judge traffic cars going through the square have an enormous amount to take in going through in a very small space and at school time it is so much worse. Headly road the problem there is the crossing was put to close to the junction causing queues back up headly road towards liphook and cars going out to bordon over take the queue and children crossing can’t be seen and there has been an accident as in the square. At many meetings even at the Neighbourhood Plan meeting it was brought up about the crossing. So I have tried to explain its the safety aspect of the children and the general public that’s the in question.

Re: New crossing - Russ (29th Apr 2024 - 11:49:25) Paul 2 sorry didn’t explain about the sweet shop the Bohunt children instead of going the Portsmouth road route they come through the square to go to the shops and then on to the station they are quite In titled to go where ever they like but the point was more come through the square and I felt that the crossing in the square should be a priority to upgrade as a great many people have said over the years zebra crossing are dangerous that’s why they now put in controlled crossings it also benefits the blind people. If you take time to consider six roads converging on the square three roundabouts bus lay-by shop lay-by and a crossing in the middle of a very short stretch of narrow highway with children dashing all over the place stepping of pavements continually going over the crossing a nightmare for motorists if the crossing was controlled the traffic and the pedestrian are controlled as in the name which makes it much safer.

Re: New crossing - Penny Williamson (29th Apr 2024 - 16:20:15) Russ You state that “zebra crossing are dangerous that’s why they now put in controlled crossings”. I understood that zebra crossings are controlled crossings where pedestrians have a legal priority over vehicles without the use of traffic signals. Could you please clarify what you mean about controlled crossing as opposed to zebra crossings? Thank you.

Re: New crossing - Russ (29th Apr 2024 - 16:57:29) Penny I have tried my best to explain some people understand and others don’t but one more try. The old zebra crossings still in use as in liphook two not controlled ie no lights the new ones as all the others in liphook are what is known as controlled ie lights control pedestrians and traffic as you probably no if you have travelled around the shopping centres etc makes them much safer especially with the auditable warning for the blind these are all over the world and this country and we have four and two old ones that my first post thought it would have been money better upgrading the old ones as they are the most used by the children. But it seems a lot of people don’t understand perhaps I’m not putting it correctly but I’ve tried. It’s much safer to push a button and wait for a green light before crossing motorists have to stop everyone knows what happening.last try.

Re: New crossing - Paul2 (29th Apr 2024 - 17:16:21) I'm sorry, but it's very hard to read posts that are long rambling single sentences. The argument gets lost.

Re: New crossing - M (29th Apr 2024 - 17:37:17) Unfortunately Russ you are incorrect with your definition. It's very easy to find out the difference between "Controlled" and "Uncontrolled" Pedestrian Crossings, isn't that what Google is for? A controlled pedestrian crossing is a formal crossing controlled by the pedestrian, be it via pushing the button on a traffic light controlled crossing or stepping off the pavement onto a zebra crossing. The pedestrian controls the traffic. An uncontrolled crossing is an informal crossing where the kerb has been dropped and the pedestrian has no right of way to cross, similar to the crossings outside the Barbers/No 1 Coffee Shop or at the top of Longmoor Road. I do, however, think many of you (Penny et all) are being rather pedantic in your comments to Russ, I think we all know what he's on about, and if he's lived in the village over 80 years then he has far more experience in the changes that have taken place in Liphook. Perhaps we should all be a little bit more understanding of his opinion..... and typing quality :-)

Re: New crossing - Russ (29th Apr 2024 - 18:17:47) Thanks M yes the old fingers are a bit arthritic ok I got it wrong about controlled crossing that was how I determined them but it’s far safer to press a button and wait than put your foot on the crossing and hope. Anyway the sun is shining let’s leave it there.

Re: New crossing - Russ (29th Apr 2024 - 18:22:19) Sorry Paul2 for rambling it may come to you one day especially if you can see something is wrong have a nice day as they say.

Re: New crossing - Local (29th Apr 2024 - 19:20:05) M, Having read through Russ's posts I see what he is saying and I respect his opinion and years of experience of our village roads. He is essentially contrasting Zebra with Puffin crossings (newer type of Pelican crossing) and appears to make the following points (without seeking to put words in his mouth, these I discerned from above): a) Traffic light controlled crossings (Puffin) are safer than Zebras which are dangerous. b) Puffin crossings also speed up flow of traffic c) Zebra crossings are outdated d) People would cross in a more orderly fashion if the Zebras were Puffins e) The council should have changed the Zebras to Puffins before upgrading the crossing on Portsmouth Road f) Crossings in towns and cities are normally controlled by lights Puffins etc g) That's what the community wants here too. I would counter: a) Surveys show both crossings to be equally safe, both have their pros and cons, ie a zebra is more likely to be used by people in a hurry as they know they can cross almost instantly (traffic must stop when a person is waiting) whereas at a Puffin people are more likely to cross before the light changes or avoid it altogether as they don't want to join the queue and wait. b) &d).There is little evidence of that, cars have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the road, in busy periods the square will slow to a crawl anyway and cars must wait, so the net effect is that Puffin junctions in busy areas of high footfall don't save any time for anyone but encourage more 'off crossing' crossing! c) & f). Zebra crossings are very much currently installed across the UK with a high safety record in towns and cities too (they are also approx 50% cheaper than Puffins) e) & g). In this climate the council are unlikely to want to spend £60 to £100k changing an existing zebra to a puffin when there are no safety or traffic flow reports to favour one over the other . Drivers do not have right of way over pedestrians and must be patient, there are no 'jaywalking' laws in this country (unlike the US and much of Europe) we still work on the basis that cars are the dangerous intruders to our highways and pedestrians may lawfully choose to cross anywhere or even walk to work on the road should they wish, (except on motorways!). It would be lawful in principle and every car would have to wait patiently to overtake (beeping them unnecessarily except in an emergency would however be an offence!) Food for thought, obviously I don't recommend it though and advise all good pedestrians to follow the Highway Code where they can for everyone's safety!

Re: New crossing - Penny Williamson (30th Apr 2024 - 10:35:42) M I am sorry if you thought I was being pedantic as this was not my intention. Yes I could have googled the subject but I was interested to know why Russ thought that Zebra Crossings were not controlled ones as I have always believed they were and your post has confirmed that. Thank you. I do agree with Local’s statement “In this climate the council are unlikely to want to spend £60 to £100k changing an existing zebra to a puffin when there are no safety or traffic flow reports to favour one over the other."

Re: New crossing - Russ (30th Apr 2024 - 14:03:29) Well Penny I accept what you are saying my mistake on types of crossings. But you are splitting hairs my interpretation of a controlled crossing is where you have to press a button to stop the traffic not put your foot on to the crossing. It’s funny that the two crossings ether side of the square are controlled puffins and they were put in years ago. Yes I no I’m old but as Sam said wisdom comes with age you only have to stand a watch in the square and headley road to see complete snarl up six roads tailing back out of the square. Children crossing all over the place and there have been accidents on both. And traffic report years ago stated the square was at capacity at school time. Since the the traffic has increased hugely so I’m sorry but I still stand by my original point the crossings are dangerous if you use your eyes instead of stats.

Re: New crossing - Steve miller (30th Apr 2024 - 17:17:19) I have lived in Liphook for 36 years and cannot recollect any serious incidents at the Zebra crossing which rather suggests that it must be considered safe by all reasonable interpretation of the word. In any event, I rather suspect that construction of a pedestrian controlled puffin type crossing in the location of the current zebra crossing would he unlikely to comply with HCC highway design standards due to its proximity to the Lloyds bank roundabout. It might just comply if moved towards the other roundabout but that would mean losing the layby outside the bike shop. It would be interesting to know whether HCC have ever conducted a design study to investigate whether installing an alternative to the existing crossing would offer any advantages.

Re: New crossing - Russ (30th Apr 2024 - 18:34:36) That’s very interesting Steve I think you have a lot of experience in highways from your previous posts on here. My memory is not as good as it used to be but I’m sure there have been an incident on both crossings but the point is to stop a fatal accident before it happens. The point about the distance from the roundabout is interesting the one at the top of Portsmouth road is a puffin and it would be interesting to see how close that is to the roundabout. Will have to sneak out one night and measure from the centre of the roundabout to each one . But on a serious note if it’s ok for a zebra why not a puffin which would be much safer.

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