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Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Richard Williams (4th Jul 2011 - 16:44:04) Is it true that a gypsy has set up a building plot in a field in devils lane without planning permission.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Susie (4th Jul 2011 - 20:55:41) There was a planning permission notice up there for about 4 months. I passed it every morning on my dog walk. There has been someone living in a caravan there since last year, we've even said hello once. If they want to live there what's the problem? Don't they have as much right to live on their land as you do? I only say this as someone has posted hate mail through my letter box this evening about it. Not saying it was you though.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Rhys G (4th Jul 2011 - 21:24:58) The application to which Susie refers was probably the recent Certificate of Lawfulness, which was refused. Tpye in application no. 52747/001 on the East Hants website or the following link: EHDC planning

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (5th Jul 2011 - 08:42:58) Yes, Susie. They have as much right to live on their land as I do. Which means no right to live on it without planning permission. One development might not be here or there but the system must apply to everyone or there would be piecemeal development popping up all over the place.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - richard williams (5th Jul 2011 - 12:42:16) Susie, I received the same letter as well.My concern is when the other 99 caravans turn up and we have a huge settlement of travellers in Liphook.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Dawn Hoskins (5th Jul 2011 - 13:04:20) There has been someone living in a caravan there since last year........I think that is the nub of the issue. A statement was made that they have been there continously for 10 years. That is how you apply for a 10 year certification of lawful use. Cllr Jerrard and the planning team have been dealing with this, perhaps you can drop them a line via the parish office for more information or answers to specific questions. Dawn

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Alison |Ryan (6th Jul 2011 - 18:46:46) Just to inform everyone, there had been no one living at the Devils Lane site until two weeks ago, when a large mobile home arrived on site. They had to dig the bank away to get it in,damaging the area in the process. An application had been put in late on the Friday evening, and they turned up early on the saturday morning, knowing full well nothing could be done about it. It does appear that they do get preferential treatment and there is a possibility of them being allowed to stay. They do have a house so this is only for their convenience and not a necessity. We would not be allowed to do this so it does seem that there is a different rule that applies to them. I do live in the lane and it will bring more traffic down this rural lane.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Susie (6th Jul 2011 - 19:49:45) There was definately someone living in a van on the far side of the field during the winter, I saw the light every morning when I walked past. I also read an application for temporary housing to be installed before they replanted the trees by the gate.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Alison Ryan (7th Jul 2011 - 09:18:27) There has been no one living on this site. They have been using the land over the last three or four years for horses, I myself used to walk through and check them every day. The new horses belong to the "new" owner of the the piece of land, this is who has put the home on the site. He had erected two stables and was applying to the council for the legality of using the land for this purpose. He was subsequently turned down. I am not sure where you have seen a van that someone was living in as there was only an old vehicle that has been there for years. Have you got the right area? I suggest you might like to have a meeting as you do not seem to be properly informed of the situation. All building proposals around the area have been turned down, and this will only set a precedence for the future.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Dawn Hoskins (7th Jul 2011 - 13:24:49) Planning meeting. 18th July Please come.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (7th Jul 2011 - 17:14:07) The residents in the lane have had a meeting with Angela Glass to discuss the situation. Should you wish to speak to the council Mr Swallow is the person to get hold of.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Dawn (7th Jul 2011 - 17:51:52) please note that District Council and Parish Council are different and have different contact numbers etc. The two councillors listed above District I think.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Councillor Barbara Easton (7th Jul 2011 - 18:24:46) Mr Swallow is the enforcement officer at Ehdc and will deal with it I am sure, there is no permission to live there. The only application was for a certificate of lawfulless to keep the horse.Mrs Glass is one of the 3 District councillors and her contact details are on the EHDC website. All district councillors sit on the planning committee at EHDC The Parish Councillors can influence the decisions made but are relying on local people to attend meetings or write to the district to make their feelings known. The planning .applications for Bramshott and Liphook are posted weekly on the EHDC website, so that you can see anything which may interest you coming up on our local agenda.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A Ryan (7th Jul 2011 - 19:20:42) Angela Glass is the elected district councilor, and Mr Swallow is from The East Hampshire District Council at Penns place. Our mp is Damien Hinds. I have spoken to all concerned. This does need to go public, as it is an issue that could affect all of Liphook

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - simon (7th Jul 2011 - 23:40:27) Sorry to say they will get what they want they always do.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (8th Jul 2011 - 08:36:12) Don't expect any support from Damian Hinds. He has said he does not get involved in local planning issues.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Nicola Pierce (8th Jul 2011 - 10:34:13) Remember, all those opposed to the development on Devils Lane, please write asap to Ehdc setting out your objections using reference number 52747/003 for the attention of Dane Swallow. Please be sure to put your name and address on the letter (there is safety in numbers) and remember the Council will put unsigned or anonymous letters in the bin. We need the council to see how many objections there are and each letter must come from a genuine source. EHDC reference is 52747/001 not /003 as above

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (8th Jul 2011 - 10:54:26) After having had a meeting with the district councillor it does appear that they may well indeed be allowed to stay, regardless of the fact that they were turned down on the certificate of lawfulness. They have applied for a Gypsy encampment,so,possibly more homes could be erected.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - carole west (11th Jul 2011 - 18:05:29) the present new owner has not been using the site for 10 years which is the time spam needed for lawful use. Did they get permission for the stables and change of use to equestrian from agricultural as I believe this is also a requirement

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A Ryan (12th Jul 2011 - 08:43:44) They were refused permission, as they could not prove using the field for 10 years. In fact there had been no horses in there for a number of years up until three or four years ago.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - .A. R (22nd Jul 2011 - 18:51:39) A new application has been put in to EDHC for four caravans for occupation , a touring caravan, a septic tank, a utility room , as well as the stable blocks Ref :52747 / 003. This may mean that they may plan to take up more very soon. The road is not designed for the size of vehicles trying to access the land.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Helen (27th Jul 2011 - 18:34:29) I would just like to point out A Ryan's quote from another thread.... "We do have to,as a society, put up with a few things that we may not like, it's called, getting on with each other." umm interesting....

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (27th Jul 2011 - 20:27:04) Helen , I suggest you separate these two different matters. Having someone put a planning application in on a late Friday afternoon, then bringing in a large vehicle into the lane early Saturday morning which got stuck and had to be dug out , is hardly in the same league. If you were to have attempted it , I think you would have been prevented from doing so. Perhaps you agree, one law for one, and another law for another ? Having a party for one evening , or a family deciding they want to live in a field , despite having a house ?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - May (30th Jul 2011 - 09:22:45) I have been reading the comments with great interest and it seems to me that there are an awful lot of racist people living in Liphook. These people are reffered to as though they are not human. If any other race were treated like this you would all be arrested, terms such as them and us are not acceptable in a modern civilised society it smacks of nazism.The planning issues have nothing to do with what race or religion someone is and the term gypsy is offensive. Spot on May. In the same way it does not mean that anyone has any right to flaunt or bypass planning regulations. I assume you agree?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (30th Jul 2011 - 10:05:41) I do not believe travellers are are in a different race to us, they are not all Romany gypsies now, a lot are people who prefer to move around anyway. Expecting people to abide by planning law is not being racist.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Rosie (30th Jul 2011 - 10:07:09) There is bound to be conflict when people, who want to develop areas of land, use what can only be described as bullying or intimidation tactics to get what they want. They seem to think 'I want to build here therefore I will'. It makes locals very sceptical about the powers of the council when they see buildings go up, retrospective planning applications put in and then the council saying 'oh yes just make a few minor modifications and that will be ok'. I personally live in dread in what will happen when the proposed relaxation of planning laws comes into effect with the new government.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (30th Jul 2011 - 11:20:01) May, Since when did the word " Gypsy " become offensive ? This is the name they use to describe themselves. We are not racist in the village, just fair minded people that believe we should all be treated equally in the eyes of the law. If you, or anybody else decided to put something in an area where it should not be ,we would still oppose it. Susie has it spot on. There seems to be one rule for one group of people and a different rule for others. Now I would call that grossly unfair. Legislation needs to be changed to prevent planning applications being submitted late on a Friday, and then to go ahead the next day to move on to the land. May, I do believe if you attempted this the council would stop you.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - jaybee (30th Jul 2011 - 13:27:43) For further information on this gypsy family see horseweb-uk.com

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Rosie (30th Jul 2011 - 14:29:35) jaybee Thank you. That is so, so sad for those horse owners who were deceived. We really shouldn't take things at face value and need to question and dig deeper.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - May (30th Jul 2011 - 14:37:15) Back to SIMONS comment. You say they always get their way but the government has not provided enough sites for travellers which is by the way what they call themselves, not gypsys, and encouraged travellers to buy their own land knowing that they didn't have a hope in hell of getting any planning almost anywhere in the country because everybodies opinion is "NOT IN MY BACK YARD". Well its about time things changed, and GYPSYS ( as you call them) are the last race not to have any rights, and not to be recognised as part of the community. And that is why alot of them died in world war two along with the jews, but nobody seems to ever mention that becuase they DON'T matter. To Romany Travellers, GYPSY is a derogatorie term. It is the same to them as calling a Pakistani a paki, or a black person a Nigga. RACIST.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (30th Jul 2011 - 15:26:31) May, I suggest you look at any legal documentation especially from Heine Planning Consultancy . They class themselves legally as Gypsies. This is how they apply to gain the right to live on land. They have their own Gypsy web sites , please do check ! I must say to jaybee, thanks for that article, still on their side May?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Robert (30th Jul 2011 - 16:40:38) I suggest you all get your facts right when you talk about people decieving horses your not even on about the right family the family up devils lane are young and if you had researched it right the family in the article are in there 60s

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (30th Jul 2011 - 17:18:35) Yes you are right because if they did'nt they would not have a right to live anywhere, but I can assure you the term gypsy is offensive

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (30th Jul 2011 - 18:40:34) Perhaps they will be giving up their house in Farncombe ? May, check out www.savvychavvy.com . The word chavvy means young person in romany. Also www.gypsy-traveller.org and www.gypsytown.com or any other site regarding gypsies. These are their own sites. People are missing the point here, no one has the right to just set up a home where they want you, me or anybody. I have no problem with their horses, only that the fields are full of ragwort which is highly dangerous to their health. Land owners by law have a duty to clear it, which they have not. May, I suggest if you want to know more about a situation involving an animal regarding the family then ask for my email from the editor and I will gladly tell you.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - robert (30th Jul 2011 - 21:53:01) They have never lived in farncombe your on about the wrong family

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - jaybee (31st Jul 2011 - 08:36:56) The original planning application 52747/001 dated 29 March gives Mr F Keets address as Farncombe GU7 3SR

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (31st Jul 2011 - 10:02:26) i dont think may was disputing the planning issues. everyone knows that people have to have planning. i think it was the fact they are not referred to as those people, they are pit in their own little box like they are scum. I expect when their kids go to school they will be bullied, and that bulling will be encouraged by the parents cos they are ignorant too. Or maybe they will pull their kids out of school cos their precious little darlings are too good to sit next to a gypsy child. I doubt if they went down the usual route of planning and it were granted, that people would be happy about it and welcome them as they would any other neighbour. Every one is equal in my book, and everyone should be given a chance.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (31st Jul 2011 - 11:07:19) Suzie you said in your first comment that someone posted you hate mail, What did it say? do you think they sent it because they knew you had spoken with the travellers

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. R (31st Jul 2011 - 11:20:58) I have spoken to Mr. Keets, and his wife . Their address is in Farncombe. He also told me so himself. Robert, you really do need to check out your information, the previous post has put the number of the planning application, please do check it out. As residents who may be affected, we do know all the information, and have also spoken to the district councillor, and case officer.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - May (31st Jul 2011 - 12:40:40) As far as i know they have applied for retrospective planning, so therefore have not broken any planning laws, so what is all the fuss about? merely the fact that they are a travelling family. If it were a non travelling family, i doubt anyone would bat an eyelid.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Sophie (31st Jul 2011 - 13:04:58) After reading the comments i would like to ask Richard Williams about his comment dated 5th July concerning a large settlement of gypsys. Could he please explain what he means by this? And what his problem would be because it seems to me that there are a huge settlement of non travellers so what would his FINAL solution be? I am quite disgusted by his comments.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Susie (31st Jul 2011 - 13:55:49) What's going on here? These comments have got totally out of control! I don't think anyone on the original post had any of the thoughts Lily and May are accusing them of. I wasn't personally posted hate mail, it was a general notice of what was going on and although I have no objection to anyone living in the field I can well understand why people would want to keep the lane as quiet as it is was...it's a treasure. I can't speak for the others but I know A. Ryan, her rescue of ill-treated animals is legendary. She has the welfare of the horses as well as the local wildlife at heart. Suddenly the comments have got personal, which was not necessary. We have travellers frequently in Liphook with the fairs; we don't treat them badly do we?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (31st Jul 2011 - 17:14:27) My gripe is not the dicussion about the planning issues. It is about mentioning who they are or what they are. Nobody would write "Is it true a group of black/pakasitani/caucasian are setting up a camp" My question is, why does it matter who they are? Does religion, colour and culture have to come into it? So by mentioning that they happen to be gypsies seems like the worried people are anti gypsy. Gypsies are mistrusted and disliked by people who know nothing about them(I am not refering to anyone on here, just generally). My opinion is, that the concerned parties are worried about their properties being devalued, and why should it devalue their propeties? Because NO ONE wants to live next door to a gypsy.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - BDavies (1st Aug 2011 - 10:53:24) Behaviour maketh man! You only have to look at news articles describing some traveller/gypsy gatherings and settlements to see why people are concerned. The reported increase in localised crime and illegal waste disposal that accompanies them is fact not fallacy. It's a case of a lot of rotten apples spoiling the whole enormous barrel!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Diana (1st Aug 2011 - 10:58:35) Travellers and Gypsies have got themselves a bad name. We know that not all are squatters and rip off merchants. These people obviosly own the land but they should abide by the same rules as the rest of us. Apply to the council and abide by the decision. A few weeks ago some travellers decided they would like a seaside holiday at Hayling on one of the car parks. A local was very upset, dogs running around begging for food, and it was a No Overnight Parking car park. I guess they did not pay to park and the coucil had to pay to remove them. If these people want rights (and they should have) then they should also accept responsabilities as I am sure May and Lilly would agree. If they want to travel the country, fine but don't abuse other peoples land.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (1st Aug 2011 - 23:51:56) Dianne how do you know they were on holiday, maybe they had nowhere else to go, people need to get these misconseptions out of their minds and not beleive everything they hear. As you say a lot of bad apples etc. but how often do you hear of a traveller doing a murder or being a child abuser not very often, no that is the other breed, the so called law abiding perfect breed that is the gorgies, that is the travellers word for non travellers who travellers regard as dirty filthy rotten people who feed their dogs off their plates and wash their plates in the same bowl as their underwear rotten people, not the travellers who cherish their old folk, they dont put them in an old peoples home and get thir money, love their children, and have more understanding of their animals then you could ever know. So if you dont understand the culture you should not comment because you do not understand what you are talking about and you never will

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Katy (2nd Aug 2011 - 09:26:57) Hi May I am just currently reading the book "Gypsy Boy" by "Mikey Walsh". A very sombre read talking of his beatings from his father, sexual abuse from his uncle and poor education. His account of his life as a "gypsy" (his words not mine) are at times painful to read. He clearly loved his mother, hated his father, and struggled with his own identity. He talks of people in both the traveller and "Gorgia"community whom he loved and hated. I think his account shows how the travelling community try to police themselves. Sometimes this apears brutal to non travellers and I am certainly glad I didn't have the child hood he did. We all need to accept there are good and bad in all sides of the community. Regards Katy Available at Amazon.co.uk - "Gypsy Boy" by "Mikey Walsh"

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - dawn hoskins (2nd Aug 2011 - 09:29:46) plates - dishwasher pants - washing machine does that make me OK You have blown your own line of arugument! You want us to accept travellers and avoid misconveived ideas such the accompanying abandonment of cars and rubbish dumps that people are afraid of etc - yet you tar us with the same brush by saying that we are paedophiles; old people ignorers and money grabbers. I have avoided this thread until now as it should have been about planning permission - and quickly turned into a 'your camp' vs 'my camp' argument. This County has rules and regulations. Most of us don't like them - but abide by them. The same rules apply to all whatever your creed or colour. It should therefore not be a race issue if by acting outside of the planning regulations (that contrain us all) people receive complaints. A complaint against rule breaking is simply that. The 'is it because I is black' argument does not apply! don't break rules = don't get complaints break rules = complaints simple

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (2nd Aug 2011 - 09:44:26) Thank you Dawn, Sanity upheld.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Editor (2nd Aug 2011 - 09:49:09) With regard to May's comment (30th July) about the use of the word Gypsy - this document makes very interesting reading - Is it ok to call someone a gypsy, or is it a derogatory term? It is perfectly ok to use the word gypsy and/or traveller, neither are classed as derogatory. Most gypsies and travellers are very proud of their heritage and would be more than happy to clarify their ethnicity if you are in doubt. www.stlegerhomes.co.uk - Fact Sheet Also www.stlegerhomes.co.uk - Myth Buster Alan

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (2nd Aug 2011 - 10:23:52) As you all like to tell me, do some research, in some countrys the word gypsy is illegal as I am sure it will be here one day too. I cant beleive the hatred you people seem to have for travellers, I have come to the conclusion that you cant change the way biggots think after all this persecussion has been going on for centuries, maybe, hopefully the younger generation will see the error of their forefathers ways, just as they did about homosexuals and other ethnic groups but sadly I think this is quite a way off. oh and just to say you can throw one book at me in your argument regarding child abuse, murders etc not much is it considering all the peter sutcliffs fred wests ian huntleys, not to mention the rapists and other scum of society too many to even comprehend that are all in the main gorgies. by the way dishwashers ,crockery and dog bowls, washing machines tea towls and body towls and underwear equals SCANK

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (2nd Aug 2011 - 10:40:11) Unfortunately the word gypsy is used in planning as there is an onus for travellers to prove their gypsy heritage in order to get the preferential planning status, there is a seperate planning law which applys to them so in this situation it is correct to use it. However, when travellers want to make money from their properties and sell them on the open market, they usually fight hard to have the gypsy site tag removed in order to profit, as there are restrictions on who can live on the sites.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (2nd Aug 2011 - 10:47:04) I forgot to add the racial element was started at the very beginning by richard williams comments regarding caravans and gypsy settlements, even the tag name smacks of racism, if not why not tag it as planning issue in devils lane. please read his comments and if they are not racist I dont know what is

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (2nd Aug 2011 - 11:06:57) Nobody posting on here has made any reference that could be construed as to being racist. I take umbrage to your accusations. My husband's family have a number of different mixed marriages I have two black brother in laws, and a Philippine - Chinese sister in law, and six mixed race nephews and nieces. I have nothing against any "race" (if that is how you want to put it) I am just against some people having MORE rights than others, regardless of who they are. I do wonder why you are protesting so much and in such an abusive manner ?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (2nd Aug 2011 - 11:19:56) Right, for those of you who dont get it, the reason it has turned into a racist issue is because it started out as one. The thread is called GYPSY SITE IN DEVILS LANE. Why could it not be called SITE in Devils Lane, was it necessary to use the word Gypsy? If so, please tell me why? Secondly, the first post says about a GYPSY man. Why was he not just referred to as a MAN, like any other man?Why did his culture have to be pointed out? Can someone explain?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (2nd Aug 2011 - 12:29:17) i also have mixed marriages in my family and I beleive all people are equal, but there seems to an inclination to blame the travelling community for everything. Yes I agree everyone should have the same rights unfortunatly travellers do not. It is in the travellers culture to travel, due to the fact that there are not enough local authority sites their way of life is being taken away from them, I am sure that most travellers would be happy to pay for any facilities and it would be beneficial for everyone if there were more of these sites. Previous governments encouraged travelling people to buy their own land knowing that it is almost impossible to gain planning permission. I suppose the problem is that most people do not want a site in their town or village, why? They are pushed from town to town, in this day and age this cannot be right. My back is up because I feel a real injustice for these people I am sure if a non travelling family had put stables on the land in question no one would have said anything, also there is the supposition that and I quote \"99 caravans will follow\" is this just to stir up hatred also what about the hatemail that was posted to residents no one wants to comment on that, what was in that letter, again was that done to stir things up, if anyone knows what is in that letter post it on this wall, if there is nothing racial in it there is no reason not to, of course the wording could always be changed unless you are one of the people who actually recieved it we will never know what was really in it or who sent it. I just think that it is very sad to be so against one type of people there is good and bad amongst all people, and I feel travellers are very misunderstood. I will not be responding to any more comments as I feel it is a waste of time as you are all going to stick together which is only to be expected

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - BDavies (2nd Aug 2011 - 13:20:48) The EHDC application 52747/003 filed by F Keet states: "CHANGE OF USE FROM AGRICULTURAL LAND TO MIXED USE FOR KEEPING OF HORSES, SITING OF TWO STABLE BLOCKS, STATIONING OF FOUR CARAVANS FOR OCCUPATION FOR SINGLE GYPSY FAMILY, (WHICH INCLUDES TWO TOURING CARAVANS), ASSOCIATED HARD STANDING, SEPTIC TANK AND UTILITY ROOM". The word Gypsy is clearly used and therefore this thread references it.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (2nd Aug 2011 - 13:34:51) I'm sorry May but you're completely missing the point here. If anyone applied for change of use from agricultrual land to use for horses, stables, four caravans, septic tank, hard standing and a utility room they wouldn't stand a chance of getting planning permission. The applicant has used the expression 'gypsy' as he knows the local councils have to provide some sites for gypsies and therefore he has MORE chance of getting planning permission. Seems the term is quite acceptable when it suits a purpose.......

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - May D (2nd Aug 2011 - 14:09:27) Oops I guess this is why we are asked for really names etc i got stopped today and asked about my posts on the Liphook website regarding this thread erm not me ...............looks like there are are more than one May in this village though having read through this thread i am going to sit on the fence ! ...... so no comment from me

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (2nd Aug 2011 - 14:17:11) It is necessary as the poster aboves says to use the word gypsy to get everything under the seperate planning law. I do not agree though that special treatment should be given, in answers to May -in my experience working in the public sector, any benefits which we gringos are elegible for, can also be claimed by travellers, doctors health service social security payments the travellers claim all of these, have no hatred of our society then, they do not however usually pay council tax while not living in a house, nor in my experience usually pay income tax, as tax requires national insurance numbers etc. Also as travellers are not recorded under the census or in many paper records it is easy to cover up crimes including crimes such as commited by people such as Fred West, if people are not recorded who knows if they have disappeared or not, suddenly?.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (2nd Aug 2011 - 17:35:23) you talk complete rubbish council tax income tax etc. People have called travellers derogatory names for years, dirty, theives amongst many more, now when you hear the truth about many of your own kind "normal people" you dont like it but that is just a taste of vwhat travellers have endured for years. Throw some book at me about a gypsy murderer or whatever and I will give you a list to the moon and back of murderers child abusers rapists whatever crime you can mention even tax evasion and benifit fraud all commited by gorgies. now who wants to talk about the hate mail? no one I did not think so. Now I know I said it before but this really is the last time I will respond because I cant be bothered to talk to people who are clearly so ignorant

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - mike (2nd Aug 2011 - 21:00:44) As far as I am aware you need you national insurance number to claim benefits as well as paying income tax and I think it is a legal requirement for all chidren to be registered at birth otherwise they cannot be registered with a GP.It may be a little bit unrealistic to think that there are god knows how many Fred West type characters running around causing havoc and mayhem, if there are I suggest our police force are not up to the job, which we all know they are. If there are so many criminals surely a percentage would have a police record and could easily be traced with dna records

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (4th Aug 2011 - 20:10:46) For all the people who use Devils Lane. Please note the Highways comments on the application 52747/001. Planning portal - planningdevelopment.easthants.gov.uk

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (5th Aug 2011 - 11:50:36) The only thing I see about Devils Lane, is that there are an awful lot of gas guzzler, eco very unfriendly cars.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. Ryan (5th Aug 2011 - 13:28:10) Not from the residents in the lane,they are mostly small cars. I can not afford a gas guzzler. Perhaps the parents driving to High Field school ? I would love to know how you notice Lily, as the lane is not particularly visible to most, unless you walk up here? You go anywhere around Liphook and there will be plenty of large vehicles. I suspect you are trying to get off the forum subject ?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - viv (6th Aug 2011 - 00:38:02) with regards to the hatemail maybe it should be reported to the police

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. R (6th Aug 2011 - 10:19:10) As far as I am aware a circular had been distributed to houses in Liphook, letting people know of the situation, not sure who, but we assume it was not hate mail. The person who posted that information I believe may have got that wrong. If any one knows as to the format of the letter please do inform us. I do stand to be corrected.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (8th Aug 2011 - 08:47:20) Dear A Ryan, I have been to Devils Lane to see the \"encampment\", and as it has been made a Liphook issue, rather than just a Devils Lane one I think I am well within my rights to see for myself the eyesore that it apparently is GOING to be with the other 99 caravans rocking up. If you dont want to attract attention to Devils Lane and have people find out for themselves, then I suggest you dont be part of putting it on a public forum, as it then becomes a public issue. As a mother yourself, you ought to be aware that it is the school holidays, so I dont think the gas guzzlers I saw was anything to do with the school, and even if it were, that brings me to the point that one of the objections was the extra traffic? Your lane is obviously used as as a thoroughfare so how does one or two more cars affect you so much? I also noticed a building development when I came to visit...I have absolutely no idea if this is a conversion into two properties or if its an extention, but I didnt see any moaning about that. Friends perhaps? Now the hate mail that you ASSUME wasnt hate mail, I think there is no getting away from the FACT that Susie, who by the way seems to be the only liberal minded resident of Devils Lane, clearly states on her post that she received HATE MAIL. You say residents of Liphook received it, you didnt say just Devils Lane, I have not had any. It seems like the Devils Lane gang have, and know exactly what was said. It would be very interesting if someone would post EXACTLY what this informative leaflet said. I dont think assumptions are good enough, why doesnt the author post a copy? It would probably be the revised version in any case.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Susie (8th Aug 2011 - 10:39:12) I'm not a Devils lane resident but I value its quietness, I certainly don't want to be in a hate campaign against its current residents either, thank you very much. The leaflet that was posted through my door, I read as hate mail and binned it immediately but I'm reading your posts Lily as equally like hate mail.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (8th Aug 2011 - 11:56:15) Susie, I am so so very sorry if my posts sound that way because let me assure you, I love people and I love Liphook. I abhor hypocrasy, something I suspect, we, myself included are all guilty of. I would just like to know what the mail you thought of as hate mail said? If it was particularly bad, then in my own opinion the author should stop hididng behind ehdc and come forward. It is hate, that I detest Susie, not Devils Lane residents(permission or no permission), gas guzzler owners or anyone else for that matter. I dont care what people do, it just irritates me when others have the nerve to try and be so high above their stations as if they are holier than thou. And expressing simple facts does not make me a hate campainer. The fact is they have applied for planning by stating their culture as a fact. They have broken NO Law. I do not like every law that is in place but I abide by them. So I think if people are unhappy with how they have put in their application, perhaps they should go into politics and try do something to change the legislation, because for now, like it or lump it, that is the law. I will apologise now if anyone has taken this in the wrong context.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Dawn Hoskins (15th Aug 2011 - 22:32:00) On Sunday, Councillor Eve Hope and myself went to visit the newcomers. The family are welcoming and friendly. Only to pleased to come out for some company and a chat. We even got invited back for cup cakes! the family have been living in Godalming (from memory) but were not too happy and are much more settled to be living on their land. The land has been in their family for a very long time apparently. The boys go to school in Bordon I think. It is holidays at the moment of course. They are happy chappies and very talkative. Secondly, for those people who were concerned about the pony's. The field has been cleared of ragwort completely and they look very healthy. They have been shouted at and abused, with people threatening to punch them - because they don't want the 'like of them' around here. Who is giving the worst impression here? These people are Liphook born and bred, they are locals - not from outer space. So please, Liphook, let us think about our behaviour. The planning application will go through all the channels it has to. It may end up as a positive or a negative - who knows- but in the mean time, why don't you pop in to see these people to find out who they are. They are very friendly I can assure you - you might even get a cake!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (16th Aug 2011 - 07:43:33) At last the voice of reason very well said

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Resident of Devils Lane (16th Aug 2011 - 18:53:22) To Dawn Hoskins. I do believe you and Eve Hope are Parish Councillors? Should you not be impartial in these matters? It would have been nice to have been afforded the same courtesy of a meeting between yourselves and the local residents, perhaps one can be arranged?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - dawn hoskins (16th Aug 2011 - 19:08:49) Dear Resident of Devils Lane (16th Aug 2011 18:53:22) Yes, I am impartial. I do not beleive any one should be threatened or abused not matter who they are. I am happy to stop and chat to anyone on my days off. and do! If I had discuvered that you, or any other resident had been harrassed, verbally threatened or phisically abused in your front garden - I would very likely be popping in to see if you were OK. I am not on the planning committee and have had nothing to do with this application. However, you can contact me (and any other councillor) at any time by dropping a letter into the Parish Office. This has always been the case. If you would be so kind as to let me know who you are, I can offer you the same courtesy of a meeting, However I can give you no information as to the state of the planning issue as I have nothing to do with it. I work full time, but if local residents would like to set up a meeting I am quite happy to attend out of office hours. Just send me an ivitation via the Parish Office. Is it me, or do you seem to be upset that I have made this unannounced visit ?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - dawn hoskins (16th Aug 2011 - 19:21:05) please excuse typos!! Am very tired.....and am typing very quickly!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Char (17th Aug 2011 - 05:13:49) I wonder if most of you realise that there as been gypsies in Liphook for nearly 80yrs....probably long before most of you who are commenting had ever heard of the village? Romany gypsies are a race of people, they migrated over two thousand years ago from the punjab region of India. They have their own language and customs. They are to date the most hated race world wide...and have been hated for no other reason then being what they are! 100,000 gypsies were killed in concentration camps in ww2...but they believe the figure is actually more closer to a million because most of them hid in woods ect... Why? Because they were so hated they hid from the abuse and hate that followed them everywhere they went....they became easy pickings in europe. To date gypsies can not be put on the plaque to remember the dead in the concentration camps....because the jewish community will not allow it! In 1994 this government changed the law to allow gypsy families the right to provide their own gypsy sites....therefore enabling the government to cease providing gypsy sites for gypsies to live on. To date not one application has been granted without going to numerous appeals, and in most cases going to european courts! It is the law that gypsies can provide their own sites...and gypsies didn\'t make this law the government did! Most of you put in for a planning application on your home say for an extra large kitchen...and you know that if you abide by the planning laws you will get this planning approved. Imagine no matter what you did every time you put in for planning the government turned you down...and not only the government but almost everyone in the local area was against you? Would you not in the end try and uphold your rights? The rights given to you by the government? I have no doubt that most of you if not all of you would. Gypsies are an ethnic minority..it is against the law to throw abuse at them and to call them \'pikeys\' \'gypos\', or whatever new word is in use today. They have rights because of this ethnic status..and also a right to live how they have lived for thousands of years! I have read some very insulting posts within this thread, and if not totally prejudiced...very close and worded in a way that it seems \'ok\'! Well it is not! I would advise the occupants of Devils lane to contact the gypsy council (a board that will ensure their rights), and also to contact racial abuse centre\'s to gain advice on the matters of the ethnic hatred targeting them in Liphook.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Char (17th Aug 2011 - 05:32:16) Oh and for all of you who will say why can't gypsies live in a house like normal people i have a scenario for you. You want to move to a bigger house or your son or daughter needs a council house. Instead someone from the council comes up to you and says 'no...you can't do that....we are going to let you buy a caravan and move you on to a gypsy camp'. Imagine how your life would change? How hard it would be for you to change what you know...well when you say why can't a gypsy live in a house ect... Stop and think what it would be like for you if the boot was on the other foot!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 09:34:06) Char The planning laws are for everyone. Perhaps the developers who want to build on the Bohunt Site should say they are being 'victimised' - bet they hadn't thought of that one! I have friends with land in areas where I'm sure they would love to build a house but they know there is absolutely no chance of getting planning permission. They do not see themselves as victimised and support the planning laws which, on the whole, protect our beautiful area.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (17th Aug 2011 - 11:30:50) Liz Have they broken any planning laws, I thought they had applied for planning permission, why dont you wait for the decision, as is the right of every one they will have the right to appeal if they dont get approval which again is lawful, as Char said they will probably have to end up in the court of european rights, as for your comments regarding victimisation I think you only need to read this thread and you will see that hate mail has been circulated, So I for one do believe that threats have been made towards them, you seem to want to brush these issues under the carpet, shame on you people. Why dont someone who recieved that mail post the contents on this site, I have asked this question before and so have others, but as I said before the contents woud no doubt be edited now anyway

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Char (17th Aug 2011 - 13:11:29) Liz All of your comments stink of victimising one ethnic group! People break planning laws everyday...that is a fact! I'm sure if you were to look at the averages the extent of gypsies breaking these laws would be no higher then non - gypsies. Victimisation toward gypsies is a fact....has can be seen from this thread. This type of bullying and victimisation would not be tolerated towards any other ethnic group...yet you think it's right to aim this at gypsies. The fact of the matter is gypsies do have ethnic rights and planning rights....the same as non - gypsies have the right to live on rural land through farming, business ect...The difference is that gypsies will have to fight for theirs tooth and nail! How many people go ahead and place caravans or such like on rural land because of business or farming planning applications...and i'm talking before the applications is even submitted? Maybe every house down devils lane should be pulled down? Maybe there should be a toll for using the lane's road....because we all know that the lane is used by the majority of liphook has a cut through road. Oh but of course none of this effects Devils lane....it's just the gypsies riding on traps that effects Devils lane....and right there lies the victimisation of a race.....there are lots of ways of calling a spade without actually calling it a spade. The victimisation towards gypsies lies in the fact that you can not even see what you do by saying everything they do is wrong...but not even considering the fact that have you have the same rights and do not even question them.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 13:35:57) Char Its a pity you don't read what I write instead of what you think is there. I have not accused anyone of breaking planning laws I have just said they are for everyone. My point was that no-one is being victimised by having to go through the planning process. How that can be construed as racist escapes me. So I don't think my comments "stink", to use your rather vulgar expression.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (17th Aug 2011 - 13:49:09) Liz They have applied for planning, so what is the problem? What is it with some people? What is vulgar, is no one will say what this hate mail is. Do you not call having letters distributed about a group of people victimisation when it has been clearly thought of as hate mail? You have missed the point entirely Liz. If the problem is merely the planning issues, then what issue is there? They have applied, they await decision.This is the LAW, no LAW being broken. Perhaps Im thick but can someone please tell me in lay mans terms WHAT IS THE PROBLEM???????

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (17th Aug 2011 - 14:01:55) Liz as they have not broken any planning decisions just what is this whole thread about, if you would like to go back to the start of this thread you will quite clearly see remarks about 99 caravans turning up and hate mail which I beleive to be incitement to cause racial hatred, which is actually a criminal offence. also remarks about a gypsy encampment, jumping the gun I THINK, WOULDNT YOU AGREE. People make unfounded assumptions just to stir up hatred, far better to wait and see the outcome of the application and any future appeals, then everyone concerned will just have to live with whatever that may be, as is the law

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (17th Aug 2011 - 14:08:37) Liz I almost forgot, no one has said that they are being victimised by going through the planning process, they are being victimised by threats abuse and hate mail by some so called intelligent people, seems to be more like a mob to me

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Char (17th Aug 2011 - 14:18:50) Liz I never said your comments \'stink\'. I was on the whole talking about the whole thread....and not just your comments! I was commenting also on your \'maybe the developers should state they are being victimised\'. I was then pointing out why the gypsies are being victimised....by simply being what they are! Thus in effect saying how can developers who\'s aim is to simply earn lots and lots of money be put into the same context! I read exactly what you wrote and understood it perfectly...I do not see developers personal life being discussed in a thread...an attempt to slur a planning application! By simply mentioning \'the developers\' your point went from possibly being valid to contempt. If everytime a developer put in for planning his personal life was discussed...say for instance how fast he drove...how many mistress\'s he has...what is on his police record? Most developments would never take place...and if these type of comments were written he would be within his rights to claim victimisation...but then again these comments would never be taken into account! In this case there is real victimistaion...the applicants life is being discussed without anyone knowing if the facts are true or not. Your comments about planning laws are possibly valid....by adding \'the developer could claim victimisation\', shows that you think by dragging a persons life, name, ethnic beliefs and origins through the mud and into public speculation...is the same as applying for several house on a plot of land for personal gain with no slur on their personal beliefs or background being used as a lever to gain the upper hand of an application. To claim that there is victimisation there has to be victimisation....the facts and statements within this thread speak for themselves. The fact that a lot of people within this threads use\'s the applicants life style against them to make points on a planning application is not just! If you truely believed your comment was solely about planning laws you would not have used \'the developer\' comment.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 14:27:01) May Char has said exactly that: \"Imagine no matter what you did everytime you put in for planning the government turned you down\". Please see her earlier post.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (17th Aug 2011 - 14:39:31) Liz what about the hate mail threats etc, you implied in your earlier post that this is not true , we all know that it is, under the carpet again, dont want to reply to this ANYBODY , HAS ANYBODY GOT THE COURAGE TO TELL THE TRUTH

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - char (17th Aug 2011 - 14:44:15) Hate mail by whom?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 14:48:13) This is getting ridiculous. May, I have not mentioned or implied anything anywhere about hate mails threats.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 15:04:10) Char You said: "Liz. All your comments stink of victimising one ethnic group". Seems pretty directed to one person to me. I think you should not tar all commentators on this site with the same brush - oddly enough that it what you accuse others of doing. For the rest of the post I'm afraid I didn't understand it mostly because it didn't make any sense. Paragraph 4 has no punctuation - that's not a stuck up comment about grammar - it just means I really didn't know which sentences were which!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 15:23:04) Char Apologies, My last post sounded quite rude and it wasn't mean't to. I'm sure your points were perfectly valid but I'm afraid they just weren't clear to me.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (17th Aug 2011 - 15:52:45) Liz I am sorry Idid not mean to imply that you sent hatemail, the remark I was referring to by yourself was concerning the developers buying bohunt manor, you said that they should try the victimisation route or words to that effect, as if it is a joke for people to be abused, or that it is not true. I do not know who sent the hatemail, if you go back to the beggining of the thread you will see that it was mentioned by two people. It seems though,now, that every one denies any knowledge of it, by their silence, although it is quite clearly true. I think the person who sent it is now very afraid because the fact is they have acted in an illegal manner. As I said before the planning issue is another thing, and I believe that they have gone down the correct route by applying for planning permision, as can any one if they so wish , so what is the big fuss about these people, if it was not the fact that they are travellers why was that pointed out so pointedly in the first posts on this thread. I am not saying that you said any of these things apart from one comment which read "no right at all without planning permision" but Liz they have applied for planning permision, and, until that is decided, they DO have a right to live there, regardless if people like it or not. I am not accusing you of anything racist, but some people on this thread certainly are

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (17th Aug 2011 - 15:59:23) Liz I think I phrased my last comment wrongly, what I meant to say is that I think some people posting on this thread are racist, and not that any one else thinks that you are

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Char (17th Aug 2011 - 16:05:54) There is puncuation in every paragraph! By using the old 'I can't understand you because of your grammer', is a very old and idiotic put down. That does 'stink', and in reality says 'I have no answer so i will insult you and try and make you look stupid!', when in fact it does the opposite. If you can't understand the principle behind the fact that a planning application should not be a free for all to allow people to write what they want about a person's ethnic background or morals in life, especially when you don't know if they are true or not! Hate mail has been mentioned within this thread several times by you Liz? Why then would you say you haven't when it plain to see that you have written comments about hate mail? Maybe you didn't understand that also...but then that would be your own puncuation and spelling and not mine!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 16:06:36) There is no right to occupy land without planning permission as far as I'm aware although people do at times. I was thinking more for the long term.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (17th Aug 2011 - 18:02:32) There is a right if planning permision is applied for and whilst it is being decided, the only time that the right no longer exists is when all avenues e.g appeals etc have been exhausted, which can take a very long time, sometimes years.After all these channels have been done if permision is not granted the council can then issue an enforcement notice, but up until that point they are within their rights to occupy their land. As a point of interest you may of heard about the fairground people living in Headley, the planning issue surrounding this case went on for about 20 years or thereabouts, I am glad to say that the fair people won at the end of the day

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (18th Aug 2011 - 07:47:25) I remember that the fairground people in Headley eventually won their case with the strong backing of local residents.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (18th Aug 2011 - 11:13:50) Liz No as far as I am aware they had only 4 letters of support from neighbours, I would hardly call that strong backing

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (18th Aug 2011 - 12:48:06) Its quite unusual to get letters of support for a planning application. That people were in favour was also well publicised in the local paper so please don't split hairs.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (18th Aug 2011 - 13:41:19) Liz That maybe the case, but the fact is that they were able to live on their land whilst it was being decided , which is what this thread is disputing, so I can only repeat what I said earlier, they do have a right up until the final decision, which could take years, as it did with the fair people, so I would say this if it was illegal for them to stay there they would have been evicted by now . I think you are the one who is nitpicking because you cant think of any other argument.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (18th Aug 2011 - 14:59:55) I give up!!! I tried to say something positive and even that got turned into a negative.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (18th Aug 2011 - 19:01:43) Liz I do apoligise I think I may have misunderstood what you were saying, does this mean that you will be supporting the devils lane application

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (19th Aug 2011 - 07:32:33) I (stupidly) initially contributed to this thread just to try to point out that planning laws apply to everyone. I will not be supporting or objecting to the Devils Lane application.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liphook born (19th Aug 2011 - 13:00:59) What you all have to do is realize one thing ...this is a normal loving family that has the same values as everyone else ...to lead a happy family life and bring up their children as best they can ...All i can see is pointless comments about someone you don't even know and are not prepared to get to know ..I am not a traveler myself but have known the family for years instead of all the comments on here why not have a meeting, then you can see for yourself what kind of people they are

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (19th Aug 2011 - 16:52:22) I do not think this applies to planning, how "nice" to you someone is, some years ago when i moved house, I was asked what my neighbours were like, by prospective buyers, this is a totally irrelevant question-- my neighbours may have had plans to move themselves and different people move in within 6 weeks. Planning is for usage of the land, regardless of who owns it, who uses or does not use it.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (19th Aug 2011 - 16:54:25) Liphook born I am so glad that not all the people in Liphook are so narrow minded

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (19th Aug 2011 - 21:00:22) Helen Actualy Helen it is a legal requirement when selling a property that any neighbourly disputs are disclosed, failure to do so can have repercusions, the people who were potential buyers for your house proberly just wanted to know that they were not moving next to the neighbour from hell, hence the reason the law states that disputes must be disclosed, so not irrelavant

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - second liphook born (19th Aug 2011 - 21:02:37) THANK YOU yes people living in devils lane,are LIPHOOK BORN the young man is my nephew ,is mother was born in liphook and is grandmother as lived there for 81 years her parents are buried in bramshot st marys church, so i think they got has much right if not more than most, I KNOW MY GRAMMERS NOT VERY GOOD BUT I AM A GYPSY

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (20th Aug 2011 - 00:38:25) That is the theory May but not always what happens. A lot hinges on what the problem is. If the problem persists for the new neighbour then yes there is legal comeback if a dispute is not disclosed, but a friend of mine had a bad dispute with neighbours, who did not disclose the dispute on the legal form, however, when new neigbours moved in they were good as gold and no problems occured at all, so the fact that a previous dispute was not disclosed would only come into play if the problem persists, you then would have comeback on the seller of the house.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (20th Aug 2011 - 09:51:22) Yes Helen that is what I said "can have repercusions" the fact that people dont always disclose does not change the fact that it is a legal requirement, this law is there for a reason and it is not up to individuals to determine if it applys to them or not, it applys to every one

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - John (3rd Sep 2011 - 13:48:43) Why should anybody have to ask permission to build a house, or to live on land they rightfully own? The system sucks.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Rhys G (3rd Sep 2011 - 18:10:15) John, The requirement to apply for planning permission has existed ever since development rights were nationalised way back in 1947 under the Town and Country Planning Act 1947.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (5th Sep 2011 - 02:09:18) Helen, I would like to know why you find people not disclosing disputes with neighbours ok? If this is a legal requirement, I think it shouldnt be brushed aside to suit the vendors convieneince. The friend/aquaintance you mentioned broke the law. Why should they be allowed to flout the law? The people on the Devils Lane land, however, have not broken any law. So it seems it really is one law for one, and another for others.. I suspect the reason your aquaintences failed to mention their dispute, was because they knew it would put off potential buyers, and also devalue their house. They manipulated the law by not mentioning this, and just because there were no repurcusions, does not mean that they were less corrupt in commiting this lawless act, and showing utter contempt for the law in general. In my view, they are law breakers and sold their house by deception by failing to submit the particulars.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (6th Sep 2011 - 08:38:15) Technically, if you live on land without planning permission it is illegal - although the authorities are unlikely to do anything about it while retrospective planning permission is being applied for - too much hassle I presume. Because of this people in this situation believe they are not breaking the law.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - alan (6th Sep 2011 - 09:32:10) Oh, but they are !!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (6th Sep 2011 - 13:48:40) Er.. I think that was my point!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (6th Sep 2011 - 19:40:30) no they are not breaking the law, otherwise the ballifs would be there

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - alan (6th Sep 2011 - 20:28:43) As I said , they are breaking the law. No one else would get away with it !!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (6th Sep 2011 - 23:40:01) As you are aware the council has to wait to allow the retrospective planning application be heard. Even if the planning is not allowed they have the right of appeal, another 6 months, so presumably they will wait till then. Also there may be a change in this planning law coming up, of seperate designations in planning for travellers. We are all bandying the word law around rather a lot, it is planning which is being used/misused.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (7th Sep 2011 - 08:33:51) I was not referring to any specific situations just pointing out that it is illegal to live on a site without planning permission. It is not just 'planning' it is planning law which can be broken or not like any other.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (11th Sep 2011 - 07:37:03) Alan no they are NOT breaking the law, it is NOT a police matter, which it would be if they were breaking the law, like it or lump it you will have to wait for the outcome of the planning application which could take years as in the case of the showpeople in Headly, about 15 years I think. Also you say that no one else would get away with it, if you or any one else had the courage to try you might, it all sounds a bit like jealousy and envy to me, with a touch of racism thrown in yet again

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - alan (11th Sep 2011 - 10:04:57) May , Perhaps I shall go and put my caravan up there too, and my friends who go caravanning as well, I bet they wouldnt like that. . They have NO right to do it, but they flout the law.!! One rule for them and another for us!! I passed there last week, a lorry, a go cart, quad bike, lots of cars, vans and this I believe is from one family ! A noisy engine of some sorts ? Oh and those fields still have ragwort, so slow death to the horses then.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (11th Sep 2011 - 10:23:40) The police do not get involved in planning, their role is to keeep the peace not enforce planning. Of course no one could get away with building on agricultural land without planning permission, we would have no green spaces left if that were the case. A special law has been created for those of a proven"traveller" background. We as non travellers do not have this right. There are cases of people who have used this law to get what they want and then never travelled again!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (11th Sep 2011 - 11:31:38) The reason they "travelled" is because of persecution everywhere they go. Perhaps they would like to settle. It is our society that doesnt allow them to become part of our community. I bet if they bought a house right next door to you, you wouldnt like that either. Would you ask them for welcome new neighbour drinks? Dont think so. The councillor who took the time to visit them said the ragwort has been cleared. The horses are not in danger, Horses are a passion and a way of life for most travellers, I think that you are trying to appeal to animal lovers, using the horses welfare to stir up trouble for them. What is it to you if they have a quad bike? many people do. Lorry, perhaps for work? What is your problem seriously? Perhaps you ought to mind your own business, wait for the outcome, and stop sounding like youve swallowed a bunch of sour grapes.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - alan (11th Sep 2011 - 13:17:53) No May, The reason they travelled was that they liked this way of life. It is a nomadic way of living. If they get planning permission that will not be the way of life they seem to want to lead, they will be settled.. Just like everyone else, only not having to worry about a mortgage of rent. Yes a bit of sour grapes there, who wouldnt !! I notice on the EHDC website that they have put that down as how they want to live, check it out. Also it seems the council do house them so they do settle with neighbours. I wonder why you say people dont want them as neighbours , there must be a good reason, care to share it. Perhaps May you should mind your own business too, As for the ragwort , tall yellow flower heads? the fields were full of them . Any one knows it will kill a horse, go and see, all the way up that lane on the left in the fields.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (11th Sep 2011 - 14:46:34) Alan I think you are replying to lilly not me, but the ragwort you refer to has been cleared, as for the mortgage rent thing, would you pay rent or mortgage on something you owned outright, and to the person who said they would pull their caravan on this land I will say, why? do YOU own it? perhaps some one should pull a caravan in your garden or your driveway. These people are going through planning and you are all jealous, and just to put you right most travellers travell through the summer and pull on site in the winter, you all seem to know a lot about the travellers way of life but in reality you have not got a clue. Why dont you await the outcome of the application and if it does not go your way you can continue to stir up hatred as it seems you have nothing better to do. I bet if we could see you now you are pea green

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Mary (11th Sep 2011 - 15:53:45) You cant buy agricultural land at agricultural prices and be allowed to build on it . You have to purchase building site land and submit plans to the council to build on it. So the simple answer is for the family to keep their horses on the land and buy another piece of building land to build a house on or park their caravan.Did I read somewhere they travelled all the way from Farncombe.?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Rosie (11th Sep 2011 - 16:56:17) Regarding the comment about building on agricultural land I suggest you all take note of the Government's proposed relaxation of planning laws! They want thousands of homes built. Growth and development will take precedence and rural locations will not be exempt. Property development speculators have been buying up land all over the country just waiting for this new policy. Unless a large enough number of people protest to their MP we are likely to see housing estates popping up everywhere. Agricultural land will not be exempt. I have seen travellers sites which are kept beautifully and I have also seen temporary sites where the travellers have cut down trees, kept large numbers of uncontrolled dogs and left the site full of rubbish. I use the word travellers because there are different communities who come under the same umbrella. Unfortunately as always it is the few who spoil it for the others and that is where the prejudice arises. We can't pick and choose our neighbours but if residents of Devils Lane have concerns they could always ask for restrictions to be considered for the planning application.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (12th Sep 2011 - 01:41:26) Agree with Rosie. She has defined it perfectly She seems neither for or against, voiced her opinion in a clear, unbiased way. Well done you Rosie.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (12th Sep 2011 - 06:22:01) If the government provided sites in the same way that affordable housing is provided it would take away the reason for travellers buying up land, they cannot afford building plots,so they have to look after themselves because no one else will, I dont think people understand that they are trying to preserve their way of life. In reply to Alan regarding why no one wants to live net door to travellers I dont believe that this is strictly true,people living in affordable housing do not seem to have any problem, it is the people living in private propertys the so called affluant members of society who somehow think they are superior when in fact they are on the whole biggoted and full of predjudice, if they would like to tell the truth it is not the effecton greenfield land that worries them but the drop in the value of their own property, which they themselves have caused by their preconcieved ideas about travellers.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (12th Sep 2011 - 09:57:42) I can also not afford a building plot- I have had no help either had to be self reliant all my life! I realised this early in my life, I had no advantages, but did not expect any special treatment just because I was born into a disadvantaged background. Later in my working life, I had financial dealings with travellers, and although they were certainly not educated, and signed their name with a x or a thumbprint, they were able to invest in the city and in the stockmarket quite easily as they were very wealthy people certainly not disadvantaged.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (12th Sep 2011 - 18:59:20) Helel You miss the point yet again, people who cannot afford a house are as a rule given a housing association home to rent, Travellers are trying to keep their way of life and culture and so for the ones who cannot afford a house or a building plot, (which most of them do not want to live in a house but a caravan) the government should provide sites around the country which of course would be paid for by the travellers on a rental basis. Of course there are some wealthy travellers and unlike popular belief MOST can read and write in this day and age, the majority are very intelligent people, which when they get the blame for abandoning scrap cars etc I know this is not true because they would take it to a scrap yard and cash it in, they have more sense than to throw money away, I think you will find the people who do that are non travellers.The majority are hardworking family orientated people, some are wealthy some are not as is the case with non travellers also. The planning laws recognise that travellers have a different way of life, hence different rules for them, but rarley do they get permission without a massive fight and having to jump through many hoops, if you dont like the law take it up with your mp, perhaps together you could get a law passed to approve ethnic cleansing as clearly they cant live here ,there or any where unless it is a council house and not in your back yard. I believe though that you would have the same attitude towards people living in council houses if an estate were built near you

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (12th Sep 2011 - 22:13:35) I think you are implying I am being rascist which I am not. Housing association accommodation is certainly not available to everyone in need, neither was any council accommodation offered to me when I was in very desperate circumstances, I was told I needed either children or be recently arrived in the country under the asylum rules. You only have to see the amount of homeless people in London to know it is not just a case of how needy you are whether you are housed. I am judging from direct experience of the housing rules.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - liz (13th Sep 2011 - 09:02:34) I shouldn\'t worry Helen, I was accused of being racist on a similar thread (and a liar!) and most certainly am not. It is just a ruse (along with the nimby accusation) to back up a weak argument, to plead an unjustified special case and embarass people enough so they dare not criticise.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - alan (13th Sep 2011 - 09:21:32) Those old enough and who have lived around here for a long time will have at some time come across problems with Gypsies,and it is not being racist by saying so. I remember being in school years ago and we were terrified of them. I do know of intimidation and threats to people, even lawyers and councillors. A lot, I am afraid are illiterate and do not do well at school.As for most of them working, a bit of a myth there. They got most of their wealth by squatting on land then selling it or being bought off, I do believe the garage on the A3? As for wanting a way of life, that is a cop out. Over 50 years ago, hardly anyone had a mortgage let alone any where to rent. It is only in recent times we have aspired to this way of life. Parents worked as farm labourers and domestics to have a job and a home. Life was extremely hard for them. We all have to conform to the society we live in, no one is so special or deserving that they can have separate rules. Maybe this is why we get angry at the injustice of it. We all lived in caves once for heavens sake, we all don\'t have the urge to do so again. As for caravans, a lot of us like to go to sites and have a holiday, perhaps this is what they should do too, not just assume they can set up home anywhere.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (13th Sep 2011 - 10:31:01) Why are you talking about squatting, they are not squatting, they own their land, and as for the garage on the a3 that was bought and paid for as well. Do you think that travellers can really pull on a piece of land and hey a few months later own it by squatters rights, get real.You all seem to think that you are the only people to have worked hard, and as for the racist issue you tell me what it is when one ethnic group clearly hate another ethnic group, and also have no problem saying it on a public forum, if any of you were talking about any other ethnic minority in such a way you would be arrested, you need to understand that there is good and bad in all people, look at the london riots, not commited by travellers, there are bullies in all walks of life and from all backgrounds, my own daughter was bullied so badly at bohunt school that i removed her, and this was done by a police officers daughter, so stop blaming everything on travellers and recognise that they are people just like you. If you read past threads from this site you will see for yourself how disgusting some people are

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (13th Sep 2011 - 10:41:55) Alan every single word you say is complete rubbish, you have no idea what you are talking about, how do you know how people earn their money? please explain, how do you know that they squat on land and then somehow own it? or that they have threatend solicitors council workers etc. it is people like you spreading lies that come from your vivid imagination that makes people afraid, if you got to know any you would not find a more generous or loyal type of people

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Mary (13th Sep 2011 - 17:16:17) Re squatters. How about Bircholt Road down the Longmoor road. This was originally common land.What about the common land at Rodborough on the old A3. You cant purchase common land but if you squat on it long enough and the council are too frightened to evict you then its yours by rights and you can sell it on or live on it.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - alan (13th Sep 2011 - 17:57:45) Yes May, Some of us remember Rodborough common before it had homes put on, and May we know that by squatting on land and selling it is how the family could buy the fields in Devils Lane. It is common knowledge.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (13th Sep 2011 - 18:16:19) What land did they squat on in order to buy Devils Lane? Or where was the land?

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - simon (13th Sep 2011 - 20:12:13) You tell them alan. And i will tell you all somthink if this goes a head at devils lane the people who live there will find there hard erned homes wont be worth sixpence!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (13th Sep 2011 - 22:01:34) And thus we get to the root of the REAL issue, dont we Simon? It is because of people like you that devalues their homes, with your prejudice, ignorance and hatred. If attitudes as a whole were different towards them, it should be no different to living next door to any other person of a different culture. Their homes wouldnt be devalued if it were a coloured, or asian, chinese faimily, or would it? Maybe It would though as far as you are concerned, as you come across as though you believe to be superior to the travelleres, I can only assume you see yourself as superior to EVERBODY? You have just suggested that if the application is successful, their houses will not be worth a penny, I assume that is because you are in effect saying no one will get a buyer should they decide to sell.Why is that? Back to the same racist, predjudiced, stereotyping that they have had to endure for years. I am absolutely disgusted that there are still so many medieval minded people. I wouldnt be surprised that if there was ever a vote to stick them all in the gas chamber(again) some Liphook residents would actually tick the yes box. Also, what land did they squat on and claim, to be able to buy Devils Lane? Please do correct me but I have never heard this.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (13th Sep 2011 - 23:36:42) Several issues I will set straight, I know for a fact that land in bircholt road was purchased by my grandfather in 1948, If any of you would like to check with land registery you will find this to be true, before this time people were already living at this property, I believe a nurse owned his bungalow at some point,most of the other land in bircholt road was claimed and registered by Ken Woods , who also claimed land in the surrounding area. He then sold this land to the travellers. As for the garages on the A3 this land was purchased from the sunnyside stables estate, but should you want to check feel free, there is a charge of £3.50 per title deed .If any more slanderous lies appear on this forum I will be consulting a solicitor with regards to bringing civil action against those making false allegations. I have in my possesion title deeds which can prove without doubt that the comments made by Alan and Mary are completlely untrue and I will not hesitate in seeking legal advice if they continue to make such allegations. Also I feel that you should withdraw your comments publicly on this forum. As for travellers not doing very well at school they have obviously done a lot better than most of you, in your 9 to 5s wether they can read and write or not, otherwise you would not be so jealous, and yes it is planning law to look upon travellers differently as it is with farmers and churches amongst others, if you dont like it that is just too bad because the LAW IS THE LAW AND WE MUST ALL ABIDE BY IT

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (13th Sep 2011 - 23:45:23) Simon It is only people like you that devalues homes with your ignorant attitude, also I know that I am not very good at grammer, and usually I woud not point something so trivial out but if travellers writing is poor yours is diabolical

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - helen (14th Sep 2011 - 09:25:30) Unfortunately this has degenerated into a thread of who is rascist who can spell etc, and the issues have got clouded, this is a planning issue, and yes it is unfortunately true that a traveller site does seem to affect the neighbours, the planning policy is under review so things may change in the future and sites may not recieve the special status they enjoy now, maybe that is why the application is in now? The traveller definition is very wide and encompasses irish travellers as well as Romany so I believe if that DNA were investigated it would be a mixture as would ours who are settled, perhaps we should now desist and let the planners at EHDC decide!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (14th Sep 2011 - 11:00:46) Helen I agree this is what I have said again and again, but when people start making accusations that I know for certain are not true, then enough is enough, I will not have my family slandered with lies about squatting, Until recently my family owned a large part of Bircholt Road, and still do own some,all bought and paid for, it was never gained by squatters rights and I will seek legal advice if these accusations are voiced again on this forum, as I said before check with land registry if you so wish

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (14th Sep 2011 - 13:47:57) Helen, So do you know what Simon means when he says the existing houses on Devils Lane wont be worth sixpence? Maybe I am wrong, but I took it to mean it will be very hard to sell as there are not many people who will be willing to live next to gypsies. If this is what he meant, I do agree with him, this is how it most likely will be, however SHOULDNT be. I am not saying this is only Liphook but everywhere. If the whole country were tolerant, did buy houses next to them, did regard them as just neighbours like any other, there should be no reason for anyones home to be difficult to sell. So yes unfortunately it is prejudice, misinformation, fear, and ignorance, AND a bit of feeling of superiority that causes this. Perhaps if people tried to embrace and welcome and get on with their new neighbours, there could be an example for others to follow suit.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Charmain Mitchell (14th Sep 2011 - 20:00:07) Alan and Helen I think it is fair to say that you are both making up lots of nonsense! I am a gypsy and I lived in Liphook for many years, my family lived and still live at Bircholt Road. I went to school in Liphook and the part about everyone being scared or bullied by gypsies or lets get down to it the liphook word for my kind is \'pikies\' is total rubbish! Three of my cousins and i were bullied beyond bullying...I\'m sure most of you recognise the term \'pass the fleas\' thats what happened anytime anyone in a Liphook school touched us in some way. The teachers told us to ignore it we were just being silly! I have been asked to attend conferences on my recollections of this type of thing by hampshire school board, because they finally recognise this as racist behaviour. I am has you can see not illiterate. The reason why that in this day and age racisism of this kind can continue is because of small minded bigots like yourselves. People who don\'t understand the processes of the planning laws or laws in general. Gypsies do not have planning laws because they are special no more then farmers have their own criteria of planning laws, or indeed people who live in council houses. Every part of planning has laws that refer to each segments: Gypsies, farmers, showmen, developers, council estates, private housing. If you knew this then you would know that the planning for gypsies follow the same guidelines of any planning law and is tailored to the needs of that planning law, just has a farmer obtaining planning for a building follows the guidelines of planning for agriculture. The land at Bircholt road was never used for \'squatting\', the land that was sold for the garages on the a3 was actually purchased a few years before the land was developed for the a3 garages and made the owner a multi millioniare. Maybe this is where all this total rubbish comes from - jealousy? All of this can be checked out at the land registry and it might be an idea in the future if you check your facts before shouting slanderous remarks about things you have no idea about? I hope this clears a few things up for you? I have 3 businesses all legal, I am a gypsy, I can read and write, and I have left my full name which i\'m sure some of you will recognise! I will be happy to answer any of your mis-informed questions you have and will be waiting to see if more racist remarks appear which will ensure that legal advice will be obtained.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Mike (14th Sep 2011 - 20:02:05) I've just got a few things to say and before anyone thinks otherwise, I AM NOT A TRAVELLER, ROMANY, IRISH OR ANY FORM OF WHAT THE BIGGOTS WOULD CALL GYPSY!. 1. If a none gypsy was breeding horses on the land and wanted to put some form of accomodation on their to protect their livestock, would any of you complain???. I don't care what you say,. I know a good 75% wouldn't!!!!. 2. What's anyones background got to do with it, you ARE using racism under the excuse of planning permission!. 3. Why isn't the moderators doing their job and keeping this thread on topic and stopping any racist comments, which may I add is a criminal offence, and there are plenty of them here!!!!. tbh, you all make me sick to think that those poeple who've hurled abuse, false accusations and down right lies are genetically related to me. As for those that live in devils lane, maybe, if you had a bit more tollerence and tried to understand by polite conversation with the land owner, you'll realise that I'm sure he's no different to any of you! other than having not having the "I'm better than you" attitude!!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Charmain Mitchell (14th Sep 2011 - 20:22:43) Oh and Alan You and your friends can not simply go and pull on land with a caravan because you do not own it! That is trespassing and then you would be breaking the law! I thought I would point this out to you because you are finding it hard to understand the basics of what is breaking the law! Hundreds of people per year pull caravans on land that they own (and i don't mean just gypsies or irish travellers), these people go through the same processes as gypsies and put in for retrospective planning permission which then goes through appeal ect... So I think you will find that many do 'get away with it', and not just the group that you point out being the gypsies! Maybe some of you should look up retropective planning applications through out uk, I'm sure you will then see that it is not just gypsies. Also then some of you would also realise that it is wrong to bring peoples personal lives, or hearsay into a discussion about planning. Maybe then when you have researched the subject and do know what you are talking about you can put up a valid point and not a biased, illiterate, ignorant point - which i'm afraid Alan is exactly what your point is!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - irene mitchell nee ray (14th Sep 2011 - 22:24:05) I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY MY COMMENT WAS NOT PUT ON TALKBACK . What i have read as been quite RACIST BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE.Mary made comments about squatters claiming land in BIRCHOLT RD,Well my family have lived in this road for over 81 years,my maternal granfather bought is land then,my paternal granparents bought theres in 1948,but rented it for a number of years from is sister that live insame rd ,she owned a very large house that still stands today.if there is any more comment along t hese lines i will get legal advice ,Because we have DEEDS TO PROVE THIS .AN YES WE ARE A WELL KNOWN ROMANY GYPSY FAMILY, And the family living in devils lane is my nephew and family10 Your original post was rejected because you had left the CAPS LOCK on for the entire post

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - charmain mitchell (15th Sep 2011 - 15:11:33) I think why a lot of people on here are so angry is that this thread isn't about the planning and about an ethnic group. The anger comes from comments such has 'gypsies are illiterate, gypsies working is a joke, they squat on land because its common knowledge ect'. The point is about the planning and planning laws on devils lane, why people are being accused of being racist is because these comments are labeling all gypsies on hearsay and lies. Of course some of the things that have been stated are true within the gypsy community...but then they are in the non-gypsy community also. There are guidelines and planning laws in place to ensure that gypsies have fair planning criteria. The same ways agricultual planning laws ensure a farmer has the same fairness but tailored to the farmers lifestyle. If a farmer puts in for retrospective planning (going ahead with planning which hasn't been granted, and after putting in a planning application) he will be treated exactly the same. If i remember correctly the criteria for gypsy/traveller planning is as follows: You must verify you are a gypsy The site must be within reasonable distance of a settlement (village, town) The need for a site must be ascertained It must conform to policy Nowhere does it say that you must be insulted, your personal life can be made an issue no matter if it is true or not, lies can be flung around in an attempt to slur your reputation and the reputation of your family. I think it would be an idea if this was taken in account because it is an offense to start and fire up an hate campaign simply to try and prove a point against an ethnic group that you don't like.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - D Advocate (15th Sep 2011 - 16:28:42) Re retrospective planning applications following building works without planning prior consent:- As I understand it a cousin of H.M. The Queen has been doing so on a farm in Milland for some time. Princes and paupers all the same, eh! Still pees everyone off, though.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (15th Sep 2011 - 16:35:36) Has any one seen the news today? In the 21st century Great Britain is being compared to a third world country with regards to humanitarian issues by the UN. What a shamfull title to have

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (15th Sep 2011 - 17:06:32) I urge people who think discrimination doesnt exist to look at the Dale Farm website. You will see comments on the forum with some people saying things like "they are paedo,wife beating, inbred pikey scum and get them out of our country" This is just one of the comments. There are, on the other hand many non traveller people saying they are going to report their comments to the police. Of course, I am not suggesting that anyone on this thread has said anything as extreem as this, I would just like to point out that it does go on, and I for one, am heartily ashamed of anyone who has such vile, imhumane feelings towards a fellow person, regardless of colour, religion and ethenticity. I actually feel so very sad.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - A. R (15th Sep 2011 - 18:26:34) If you look at the concept of this site it is for people in Liphook to voice their views and opinions. Some people might not like what is said, but everyone has a right to say it. I have seen nothing on here that would appear to be offensive or abusive, yes, a little heated, as most find the retrospective planning quite wrong, which is really the argument..Some people on here are trying to make it more personal and do seem to have an agenda, and it is does seem a little intimidating,

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (15th Sep 2011 - 23:11:41) A.R How can you say that nothing offensive has been said, this thread is full of offensive comments, lies and assumptions, Ibelieve every one has forgotten about the hate mail, well I havent, the problem is as lilly said people somehow think that they are superior and look down their long noses at any one who is different, And yes I do take it personly when my family are accused of squatting (bircholt road ) when they bought and paid for their land, and what has bircholt road got to do with a planning issue in devils lane anyway, just another pop at travellers. Before you say how do I know that it was my family being reffered to, Iwill tell you I know because most of Bircholt Road belonged to my family and extended family, as did a number of houses on the longmoor road. I did not start the racial element on this thread but I can assure you I will finish it As no posts from Mary or Alan addmitting they are wrong have been forthcoming I am still considering seeking legal advice with regards to suing for slander

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - charmain mitchell (16th Sep 2011 - 01:25:23) ar A view or an option is one thing, slanderous lies and implying that all gypsies are illiterate and do not work, and the lies being that all the land that is owned by gypsies in Liphook was obtained or obtained through squatting is another! That is offensive and very abusive and against one ethnic group. It is actually like saying that every single person in Liphook holds the same bigoted view of some of the people in this thread? Or every person that goes to the pub and has a drink is a trouble maker or causes a fight! Just because you say it\'s not racist doesn\'t mean you are right, I could say i\'m not a gypsy but I wouldn\'t be right. Maybe if you looked a bit further you could see that targeting one group and labelling them with terms such as above....is racist and abusive!

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (16th Sep 2011 - 02:22:53) It is like going around in circles, please tell me where the planning issues come into play again? Retro planning=no law broken. Please when you have a legitimate argument, please respond, until that time I ask you to refrain. Please look up travellers be you tube and the comments. People(they like to call themselves)ask that travellers be sterilised or gased. Do you agree with that? I would wager that probably you do/would. You have to go to sleep at night with these hideous thoughts in your head. I know you would never disclose your private thoughts or dreams... but they haunt you...dont they? I will do a reading, privately, for you. No charge, give it a go... ask the ed for my details....

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (16th Sep 2011 - 03:41:48) Helen, I will say nothing other than look for yourself. Leeds district council try to educate as to why they cant live in a house.They have never been accustomed or ever had a priveledge such as live in a house. They have been so persecuted that they dont want to live in a house.even if they did they would have a mob driving them out so what is the point?I I saw on you tube someone say, "look at the child eating the crisps, obviously got a mashed up brain" My reaponse was,"how disgusting to pick on a child" THAT makes me feel physically weak. There is no hope in this world to tolerate anyone who doesnt behave like you/us.Unfortunately, our GG or just G parents fought and sacrificed their lives so that this very thing couldnt happen. Shame we cant uphold and honour their deaths.

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - lily (16th Sep 2011 - 05:31:43) A Ryan, Yes it certainly has a hidden agenda for me. Look up Leeds City Council website... It will tell you how a 15 year old boy was murdered, in the same kind of way Damilola was murderd,and Stephen. Imagine that if you had to worry every single day if your baby boy would come home alive and safe? Because he might be beaten to bits just because hes romany etc.Fortunately for you, and your boy, you are not the minority. Imagine if you were? What would you do to have the police knock on your door and tell you your son is dead?Imagine you couldnt get the love and support of your community, because "he deserved to die, dirty skanky pikey" Imagine...............................hopefully now you may understand

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - may (16th Sep 2011 - 05:44:31) AR Yes I agree people are allowed their opinions and views, but they are not allowed to tell lies, and forgive me if I am wrong but I believe racially abusive language is a crime in this country. there are several threads on this site that are more than guilty of that

Re: Gypsy Site in Devils Lane - Editor (16th Sep 2011 - 08:38:05) This thread is now closed, no further posts will be accepted

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