Reply to THIS thread
Start a NEW Talkback Thread
Talkback Home

Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Green Man (2nd Feb 2023 - 13:06:58) What do you think: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64261624 This disproportionately affects babies, children, the sick or vulnerable etc so I hope all Liphook's neighbours act responsibly as they say home log burners now make up 38% of all the UK's worst particulate emission, it seems more than 3 times as polluting as living next door to a motorway (12% of all UK emissions are from cars and lorries) I'm sure people will stop burning cheap or damp wood, now :)

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Countryman (2nd Feb 2023 - 14:13:44) Hope this is not going to be like the diesel fiasco government recommended buying diesel cars then said they were the biggest polluters . People lost thousands. People have to keep warm or die everything in proportion . We have cut pollution massively from the old days. The building trade should step up and build new houses with far more energy saving ie solar panels as standard. Storage batteries in the walls so much could be done. Don’t hammer the people that are trying to survive.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - PR (2nd Feb 2023 - 15:19:20) Well said Countryman, damp bonfires are FAR worse.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Pete (2nd Feb 2023 - 15:41:47) Tell you what I think, the people that run the energy companies are panicking because we are all trying to use less therefore when the prices come back down they in turn will be making less. So they have turned to their mates in government to enact rules to combat this. They make out its a health thing what a load of crock.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Penny Williamson (2nd Feb 2023 - 17:08:37) @Green Man We have a woodburning stove which can only be used to burn dry wood and had it installed about 5 years ago. Before this energy crisis we only lit the stove when it was cold as we were using our central heating more. Now we light it late afternoon every afternoon as a way of heating the house because with the increased energy prices we cannot afford to run the central heating for more than 2 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the evening. When we had the burner installed we were told explicitly to burn only dry, well-seasoned wood otherwise the stove would be damaged. We have always religiously only burnt dry, well-seasoned wood as do, I imagine the vast majority people who use wood burners. Apparently wood burners do not like wet wood and it does not burn well. I note the sentence “Around 1.5m homes use wood for fuel across the UK, however burning wood and coal in open fires and stoves makes up 38% of the UK's emissions of PM2.5.” but it is not clear if these emissions are from burning wet wood or dry wood. So I find that confusing. Surely people who are burning well seasoned, dry wood are not going to be fined or are they? Perhaps you could elaborate.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Green Man (2nd Feb 2023 - 19:34:20) Penny, it sounds as if your burner is pretty good, the figures take into account all stoves including older and dirtier ones and especially relates to the type of wood/coal etc people are burning, the newest stoves from now on are of a yet higher entry standard but of course you could say that about many things ie cars and we don't expect everyone to buy a new car this year (well unless your name is Sadiq Khan of course!)

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Green Man (2nd Feb 2023 - 19:56:17) Also worth mentioning wet wood does not just include wood we would perceive as being wet, but also wood that appears dry to the untrained eye but isn't dry enough to burn safely, that's why the new laws target sellers primarily rather than unsuspecting buyers, but also expects buyers to buy only from reputable outlets.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Joe (2nd Feb 2023 - 23:18:07) The new proposals will only apply to urban areas not if you live in rural areas. I cannot envisage there being any kinds of checks at all - it would be too difficult to prove what type of wood was being burnt especially at night which would be when most people would light their log burners.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - gareth j rees (3rd Feb 2023 - 09:29:14) how does anyone know what sort of wood people are burning? i remember a neighbour of mine taking a wet pallet from off of my driver and putting it in the burner that they had if i go out in the evening it's like victorian london round our way, it can't be good kids or the elderly but people must be warm and if the energy prices continue like this you cannot blame people for keeping families warm in winter - any way they can.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - jmb (6th Feb 2023 - 12:22:40) in certain towns and cities. does not apply in villages though perhaps Hampstead garden village

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Oldie (6th Feb 2023 - 12:42:01) Quite laughable really years ago we used to burn anything coal wood to keep warm. The pollution from fires must be so much lower nowadays most homes don’t have fire places anymore anyway. As for saying it’s like Victorian times where’s all the smog we used to have couldn’t see your hand in front of face. Everything in proportion not this ridiculous persecution. Everyone are living longer anyway so it can’t be bad.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - er (7th Feb 2023 - 16:13:16) It's an unseen pollution unlike coal which was very visible, if it's pumping out more pollution than road traffic I can see why governments are concerned. A reasonable compromise might be to use them in the evenings when people have got home from work and shut their window vents, I like to vent my house with the secure latches if it's a nice day while I'm out as it helps avoid mould and condensation but not so keen on getting home to a house smelling of smoke, it's a catch 22 sometimes trying to do the right thing, whilst I understand the attraction of burning wood we must all think of each other, apparently a lot of people are dying from lung problems even in the UK.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Oldie (7th Feb 2023 - 20:26:38) So all the young people smoking, vaping, taking drugs, eating fast food ?? . Burning wood to keep warm instead of freezing to death should come first. I just can’t see in the country side that wood burning is a problem. As for saying filling your house with smoke you must live next to a bonfire. Modern wood burning stoves hardly any smoke as said everything in proportion. It must be better to keep our older people alive in this cold weather than worry about a VERY small amount of pollution.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - er (7th Feb 2023 - 21:16:53) I see your point Oldie about keeping warm, that's why I said I see both sides, but to dismiss one concern for another isn't nice either. Well I would have thought it was a small amount of pollution too, till I read it was nearly 40% of the entire countries harmful pollution coming just from home woodburners, that is surprising considering how desperate we all are to stop polluting cars which make up less than 10%, so this should be something we can reach a workable solution on. The newer woodburners do sound like they're a lot better maybe that's all it would take, a one off upgrade and problem solved, a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new electric car and 4x as effective for you and your neighbours!

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Penny Williamson (8th Feb 2023 - 12:36:52) Er I agree it is rather negative to dismiss/compare one concern with another. One could say that nearly everything we humans do is damaging the environment and the planet. The number of living creatures that become extinct every day due to human activity is frightening. I have a woodburner and it is 3 years old so relatively new. There are new rules in place which outlaw the sale of the most polluting fuels and ensure only the cleanest stoves are sold from 2022. However that does not mean households with older stoves have to replace them with new ones. This would be a personal choice. The kinds of emissions given off by burning dry and seasoned wood are far less harmful than those given off by fossil fuels. Wood burning stoves produce fewer emissions than previously thought but do still contribute to particle pollution. New data from DEFRA has cut the estimated proportion of small particle pollution produced by wood burning stoves from 38 to 17%

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Jay (10th Feb 2023 - 11:37:20) Wood burning stoves can be carbon neutral. Growing trees absorb Carbon Dioxide. When wood is burned the carbon dioxide is released back into the atmosphere and absorbed by growing trees. Happy days. 😁 Where there are no trees, then wood burning stoves can contribute to to pollution as the CO2 released will not be absorbed. Burning wet wood (green or undried wood) and coal can also contribute to harmful emissions. The rule is to burn only properly dried wood from a local supplier - it is far more sustainable and can be carbon neutral. Burning wood in a stove is currently cheaper per kWh of heat than electricity.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Neighbour (13th Jan 2024 - 19:09:27) Sorry to bring this up again but I've had a cough now for several weeks, I do like to open my windows and let fresh air in but can't now. There are several neighbours with wood burning stoves, we"re in a modern rabbit hutch estate no one has an original chimney, so you know whose retro fitted a stove, we are all within 10 or 20 metres of each other, so not super close but close enough for the smoke to trail across and hit my bedroom windows, one in particular has thick plumes if white smoke it's like looking at photos of Battersea Power station in the 50s! I'm worried as I know it's the worst kind of air pollution in the UK and worse than living next to a motorway by far for lung disease. I don't know these people, they may take offence if I turn up at their door asking them to sort it out, I wouldn't know how to put it and they'd probably look at me like I'm mad and say 'well what do you expect us to do about it?' I'm no expert but I've read the thick white smoke means they could be burning wet wood, does anyone know if that's right or even legal? There are babies and young children nearby, it can't be doing them any good either, honestly it feels like we're going backwards in the UK, maybe the cars are improving but I think the stoves are more than making up for that in the estates!

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Local (13th Jan 2024 - 20:45:41) Perhaps it’s the nasty bug that seems to be ravaging liphook at the moment lots of people seem to have had it for weeks. Don’t think log burners are that bad.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Dave (13th Jan 2024 - 21:00:39) Hands off our log burners buddy! This is not even open for a conversation.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Neighbour (13th Jan 2024 - 22:54:05) Dave, how is that helpful? Local, I don't know about the 'Liphook cough' but we do seem to have far more log burners this year than I remember before, people with young babies should be particularly worried apparently. EACH log burner emits MORE of the deadliest cancer and lung disease causing tiny particulates than 750 articulated lorries into the area outside the house burning the stuff, so if you have 3 or 4 neighbours with them that's the equivalent of 3,000 HGVs thundering past your windows at the SAME TIME! Impossible yes I know, but impossibly awful too, it's a real thing and Liphook for some reason seems to have taken up on the indoor log burning stoves more than anywhere else I know! (I know it's banned for health reasons in most urban areas!) Inside their house I suppose it's still bad, but that's their choice, they can choose when, but we can't know when they're going to turn it on, so we have to keep our windows shut (that means air vents, trickle vents too) all the time!

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Neighbour (13th Jan 2024 - 23:03:27) Oh this may explain it better than I can, there seems to be quite a lot about it at the moment, it may be something to do with the cost of gas and electrics, although I'm not sure if it's actually cheaper and at what health cost? www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/health/major-health-warning-anyone-wood-8130915

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Joe (14th Jan 2024 - 02:33:57) Thank you for providing the link. I looked at the same online newspaper and they provided the DEFRA map which shows which areas are covered by the ban. The closest area affected is central Guildford so you would have to move there to be sure of no / low emissions from indoor stoves.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Ian (14th Jan 2024 - 08:22:08) Getting fed up with Townies telling us how to live our lives. They move to the countryside with their woke attitudes telling us that our traditions like hunting, burning rubbish, being either male or female etc are wrong and government response is to enact legislation to inflict their values on us.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Dave (14th Jan 2024 - 08:43:24) Again hands off our log burners buddy! This is not even open for a conversation. What next Avocado toast at the Lazy Lizard and Prosecco afternoons at the Royal Anchor. I’m guessing the initial poster has just moved out of London? You’re in the countryside now buddy and log fires are like jellied eels from where you packed up your two bedroom apartment. What next a pride parade to replace the beloved Carnival parade with the crowning of gender neutral royal person as the finale?

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Richard (14th Jan 2024 - 09:19:17) Well said Dave, why do people move to an area only to try and change it to where they came from. What attracted them to the area in the first place? I’m guessing they’re all out cycling now in their tight little pants with the next complaint being “Why does everyone drive around here as it makes my morning cycle very hard?”.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Local (14th Jan 2024 - 09:46:26) Neighbour if you don’t know about the bugs going around where have you been, it’s rife everywhere flu covid coughs all in liphook people on antibiotics. So I would think shutting your windows would be very advisable to keep out all the bugs that are flying around. I don’t think a few wood burners would make so many people ill.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Neighbour (14th Jan 2024 - 11:12:22) Good to hear the enlightened views of the 'we've been here longer than you' brigade! Actually I'm not in the countryside I'm on a large densely populated estate in a growing urban area within Liphook, but you live your fantasy, Liphook ceased to be the place you yearn for years ago and everybody is entitled to a view now, whether they lived here since the stone age or moved from somewhere else, fact is Liphook's always been a transient stopping point on a busy road.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Richard (14th Jan 2024 - 11:37:10) Hi neighbour (clearly not your real name but your curtain twitching one I’m assuming). People moving to the area is welcomed and for some of us who have lived here a long time we love to see the new families moving to the area. But don’t move here and then try to make it something it has never been or wants to be. As Dave says “Hands off our log burners” !

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - AR (14th Jan 2024 - 12:18:23) Those with coughs, have you been "vaccinated" ? I haven't and I have no cough. I also have a log burner and open fire.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - M (14th Jan 2024 - 13:45:08) This post, as many seem to come down to, is about those who feel entitlement to either have a log burner or to not have to suffer the smoke generated by one. At lot of people, as it would seem that "Neighbour" does, live in what can only be called suburban housing estates in Liphook. Relatively high density housing only a metre or two from your neighbours property so any noise, smoke or disturbance is immediately noticeable, and can become very annoying when you have to put up with it constantly. I too live in a property very similar to that and have a neighbour two doors down who has a log burner and lights it most evenings. The prevailing wind tends to blow the smoke across the back of our property. I have some sympathy with "Neighbour" as any windows open or a trip into the back garden means we can smell it. I don't, however, feel the need to complain about it as I feel he has a right to have the log burner, as I do too, which I don't, and the affects of the smoke are outweighed by the fact he is a very pleasant and helpful neighbour. I think that people seem to have lost the ability to compromise and get along with each other compared to maybe 30/40 years ago. As a nation we seem to of forgotten to think of others before we do something. If "Neighbour" has a real issue with the log burner then their only option is to talk to their neighbour and try to come to some agreement. Unfortunately that will likely not mean they won't light it as after spending £1000's of pounds on the log burner they're unlikely to not use it?

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Oliver Penfire (16th Jan 2024 - 14:29:25) I assume that those in favour of increased fines for wood burner pollution have no particulate emissions footprint themselves…such as a petrol or hybrid car, a gas boiler, a petrol lawn mower etc. etc. Even though the particulate emissions from these are smaller they still contribute and ownership and use of them does not come without a smidgen of hypocrisy.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - JH (17th Jan 2024 - 11:11:04) I assume they don't fly away on holiday, either. A large jet aircraft fills up with over 250 tonnes of fuel, and uses 80% in one long-haul flight. That's 300,000 litres. Ships aren't much better - look at the brown haze of polluted air over the Solent on a hot day - so we assume they won't go on a cruise holiday.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Joe (17th Jan 2024 - 12:25:15) It is not against the law to have a log burner in this area the closest place affected by stricter rules on them would be central Guildford. I have no gas central heating (no mains gas laid here ) and so rely on mine for warmth. If log burners are swept regularly and you do not burn new wood there should not be too much smoke. As it is winter and very cold just keep the windows shut. If you worry about emissions and your lungs why did you buy a property which presumably has a lot of car traffic in a built up area ? Fuel emissions can be lethal too.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Mrs (17th Jan 2024 - 14:26:40) Wow, the initial post was about not burning wet, unseasoned wood, and quickly degenerated to 'tough, like it or move!' It's true smoke should be colourless or else something is wrong. If we take the replies here as a straw poll, clearly burners are here to stay. The pro lobby should not be too worried, they have won the argument with government too, who were asked to enforce stricter smoke requirements but refused, apparently they're popular with Tory voters! I read the report about each burner emitting as much toxic air as 750 lorries, I can see that frankly it sounds absurd or half of us would be sick with breathing issues or sore throats! I think we'd see it as asthma in the babies and young first, I wonder if anyone working in medicine can tell us if that is getting worse or not? That might appease everyone. On a sensible note, let's all think of each other, we do need to open windows and vents to air and avoid another hazard, condensation and mould, so one side can't do anything but suffer it, we shouldn't gloat though, the other side can help by burning the correct material and ensuring they have clean filters etc, there shouldn't be any white smoke after initial lighting, to get back to the original issue!

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Fed up (17th Jan 2024 - 18:31:45) Our neighbour blasts out thick smoke from their chimney ALL WINTER, it absolutely stinks and burns the back of your throat BUT THAT'S OK if you dare say anything you get a mouthful. It's selfish and unnecessary to expect everyone living in their vicinity to have their windows shut for half the bloody year. And when it's summer they're outside with a chimney. It's excessive and downright selfish

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Evelyn (19th Jan 2024 - 13:58:01) Agree with Fed-up. I can smell the smoke inside my house every night when when the neighbours start burning things, even with the windows closed. and vents covered. It makes you feel ill. I have to wait up until 1 or 2am to open the windows and get some fresh air. Also have air quality meters (that show dangerous levels of pollutants) when it starts and filters throughout the house and am unable to use the gas heating as it is supposed to draw in "clean fresh air" and not smoke from selfish neighbours. Just look at the public air quality stations just to the north of us, often showing dangerous or hazardous pollution in the evenings.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Mr (19th Jan 2024 - 16:23:34) My god reading some of these posts we should all be dead. Not so long ago we used to sit around smoking campfires have huge bonfires but we are all still here. Think perhaps we are overreacting about this.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Ian (20th Jan 2024 - 10:42:48) Our obsession with environmentalism and protecting the future is killing the present.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - En (20th Jan 2024 - 12:15:59) I’ve got a wood burner next door has one and several along the road no problems also a gas boiler. Cannot see a problem with using a gas boiler the air around here is not like city in a city nearly every house has a gas boiler back to back houses the air must be far more polluted than here.. I think everything has been blown out of proportion.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Mrs (20th Jan 2024 - 13:36:19) It's funny how people can't seem to get this at all. Ian talking about saving the environment and the future, En talking about having no problem with gas boilers, Mr taking about how we used to sit around camp fires in the old days! It's not about saving the environment, it's not about the future, 😔 it's not about gas boilers, it's not about camping! Did you all read the reports, even the MOST modern, highest rated log burner (not gas) using the best dried wood, emits 750 x more disease causing PM2.5 toxic fumes than an HGV and older ones up to 3,700 x as much as one single lorry (did you read that boys?) these particles are the single most harmful pollution to human health for many diseases. To put that in perspective, even the best log burner is worse than hundreds and hundreds of gas boilers (roughly 500!), it's not about saving tomorrow, it's about saving our vulnerable today and our air which had improved is now worse than in the 1800s, sadly the controls that apply to towns and cities don't apply to us here as we are (falsely) still classified as a village, to our detriment in everything from health to police to infrastructure, we are NOT a little village anymore, we are a dormitory town with some large, dense estates and we should probably push to get reclassified! If we saw young kids standing around the Square smoking we'd be very shocked and worried (I hope). Well according to every single medical expert including the government, the EU etc, even the BEST log burner is worse than smoking and a major cause of cancer and other health issues, the toxicity from wood burners also lasts longer in the body than the toxicity from smoking, leading to greater long term risks. If you have several burners in your neighbourhood what is that doing to the young, elderly and sick? Remember, all this was initially about was asking people to be more aware and use dry, seasoned lawful wood as the government are asking, then hopefully you are limiting the pollution to only 750 HGV lorries per house☺️ gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-action-to-cut-pollution-from-household-burning

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - Paul2 (22nd Jan 2024 - 15:57:34) @Mrs - you had a good if not lengthy argument going until this line: " ...did you read that boys?". That was a condescending point in an otherwise good argument. Imagine if a man said "... did you read that girls?". So - stop woman-splaning.

Re: Stricter Fines for Log Burners and Britain's Lung Health - En (22nd Jan 2024 - 16:51:54) @ Mrs it was the comment made by Evelyn about she couldn’t use her gas boiler because it needs fresh air ?? .and not being able to open her windows until 1-2 in the morning just found it a bit over the top . I don’t have any windows open in the winter to B cold the house stays a nice even temperature no condensation or mould surly if you want a bit of fresh air go out for a walk . The cost of heating in the winter opening windows lets it all out.

Reply to THIS thread
Talkback Home