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Renewable Energy - The Lie - Realist (13th Dec 2023 - 09:56:25) OK so under enormous pressure and against their wishes and better judgement the world has finally agreed to move away from fossil fuels over the next few years. Great I hear you say. Except that no one at all, it seems, is happy. China and the other 'developing world are furious with the 'rich' privileged west (us) because: 'It should be the rich west that gives up fossil fuels not us' 'the rich countries have had years of benefits from fossil fuels it's not fair that we won't get those benefits' 'you got rich from burning fossil fuels now your denying us that same opportunity to improve our economies' 'the billions of pounds compensation you're giving us is nowhere near enough to compensate us for leaving our fossil fuels in the ground, so why should we?' This should tell you two things: 1) The world doesn't want to ban fossil fuels, it just wants us to ban our fossil fuels so they can get rich and watch us sink, that's called jealousy, hatred, contempt, call it what you like. 2) The Big Lie is that banning fossil fuels won't destroy our economy because wind will be just as effective a fuel source, that's what people keep telling me, except it seems no countries really believe it!

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - C (13th Dec 2023 - 10:28:05) Bit of a random post for this forum!

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Realist (13th Dec 2023 - 11:14:52) C, thanks for your interesting reply (if perhaps somewhat dismissive). Not random at all, this is one of the greatest issues that will affect our children's lives for years to come and it ended yesterday with groundbreaking new commitments from the nations. It may be that we are too local or provincial to be worthy of discussing it here, but I hope not.. 'For the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about issues and events' That is written at the very top of the Talkback page. COP 2023 Dubai is certainly an event that affects us all wherever we are, I am a resident in Liphook and I have taken up the Editor's kind and dare I say, enlightened offer to voice my views, to invite any responses, I'm sure even here there are people worrying about these world events.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - confused dot com (13th Dec 2023 - 12:22:48) So no fossil fuels, so NO plastics NO man made fibres just those too how many products will disapear how many jobs lost in manufacturing yes natural materials will cover so but not all eg all the plastic used in a hospital ? can we actually cope without it wooden pcb ? no plastic pipe in your home all copper ? or go back to lead pipe , cast iron just sit back and have a think just how much we use plastic its not a simple thing to say stop too your wind farms and solar how much plastic in those ? dont get me started on heatpumps *"£(*$(*£^$(*^£$(*$^(£Q*"$

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - C (13th Dec 2023 - 12:45:04) Realist - I don’t disagree with your points but my question would be then, what response would you like from this forum? Maybe instead write to your MP or do something proactive.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Paul (14th Dec 2023 - 10:16:51) @C: you make several points, but no conclusions. Great that you are up for discourse. So what exactly is your opinion and point on the topic you started?

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - C (14th Dec 2023 - 10:27:24) Paul, I didn’t start the conversation. Please see original post by Realist. You and I are making the same point!

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Joe (14th Dec 2023 - 10:52:34) Confused.com perhaps we will get back to a simpler way of life less stressed hopefully too. It would take many generations to achieve the ban on fossil fuels. Ps Hospitals will just have to learn how to re use and sterilise equipment again or make out of more natural products such as they have replaced plastic cutlery and cups now ? It could be done.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Paul (14th Dec 2023 - 14:59:40) Sorry @C - my bad, yes I meant that for Realist! Hopefully they will come back and enlighten us all with their wisdom :)

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Steve miller (14th Dec 2023 - 16:42:28) I am certainly not denying that the climate is changing and human activity is a major part of the cause but the current UK plan for net zero is not sustainable in the sense that it won't work! Amongst other actions such as banning vehicles using fossil fuels we are planning to :- Junk the current perfectly serviceable gas distribution network and compensate its owners. Completely rebuild our electricity transmission and distribution networks to facilitate the supply of all of the extra energy needed to run heat pumps and EVs. Pay inflated prices for installation of said heat pumps and Electric Vehicles Build several new nuclear power stations and countless additional wind turbines Leaving aside the mind boggling cost of all of this, the work is supposed to be pretty much complete in the next 25 years. As an Engineer with a reasonable understanding of the scale of resources needed to deliver this work I can argue with some confidence that there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of achieving such a programme. Let's face it we can't even construct a relatively straightforward high speed rail line within a reasonable timescale and to budget.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - M (14th Dec 2023 - 18:02:25) Totally agree Steve, phasing out fossil fuels will take more like 100 years! I personally think that everybody that spouts about moving to a "Green Agenda" and such like are total hypocrites. There is not one person who waves their placards and lies in the street blocking traffic that lives a life without oil and gas. If they were truly green they could do it, but of course they couldn't live in a house, travel, eat and have their mobile phones. As for those hypocrites at COP28! A total bunch of liars! Everyone of them flew there, were transferred by luxury limo and stayed in 5 star hotels in a desert country, which must be the least environmentally friendly environment on earth. All western governments talk the talk but not one will be able to implement and afford their policies, they are just doing it to "look like they want to save the planet" As for the rest of the world, no chance.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - passfield resident (14th Dec 2023 - 19:11:39) M-your post is depressing. Are you suggesting we just carry on as we are?

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - M (15th Dec 2023 - 09:33:46) To be honest "passfield resident" Yes. Technology will improve and society will change and we'll be better at using oil and gas more efficiently with less pollution. Eventually it will become more and more expensive and run out but in the mean time why should we be the ones to foot the bill so the whole world can "go green". Electric cars won't save the planet, if it actually needs saving in the first place. I'm not scared of the future and live my life in dread worried about what will happen. The world has been evolving for millennia and in a million years it will still be here. And "passfield resident" et all that think I'm a selfish person with no thought for anyone else, I don't believe I am and if you met me on the street I don't think you would either. I am however a hard working realist that's getting fed up with the so called green agenda being forced down everyone's throat by the hypocritical minorities.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Steve miller (15th Dec 2023 - 10:49:47) There are many unanswered questions about our current approach to net zero of which cost and deliverabilty are the most pressing. We seem to be targeting a combined nuclear / renewables approach to the generation of the vastly increased electrical demand as the gas grid is decommissioned. This will only become viable if it becomes possible to store the vast quantities of surplus energy generated by renewables during periods of low demand. To my knowledge our ability to store electrical energy in an affordable way is some way from being demonstrated. It is also worth considering exactly how the current gas grid will be decommissioned. Looking agead maybe 15 years or so, presumably a significant proportion of gas boilers will have been replaced by heat pumps. By this time the economies of scale will have gone into reverse for the gas network which will become increasingly expensive to operate and maintain for its remaining customers and this becomes increasingly the case as fewer and fewer customers require gas. These are likely to be those households where conversion to alternatives are particularly difficult. The key issue as I see it is the lack of informed political debate around our direction of travel. The argument is often forcefully made that if we don't change our behavior, the cost of adaptation to climate change will dwarf the costs involved with decarbonisation but the elephant in the room here is that we are completely dependent on action required from other much larger emitters of CO2. Without wanting to be too pessimistic, there must he a significant chance that these actions won't be forthcoming or at least in any timescale that will make much difference. It is therefore not unlikely that we in the UK will end up with both our own costs of adopting net zero as well as the probably even larger costs as the climate warms beyond 1.5 degrees. It may be that my Children and Grandchildren will consider that, notwithstanding the great costs and uncertainties associated with our current direction of travel, our society has no choice other than to continue on this road, but I would like to think that fundamental issues of this kind have been widely debated on the basis of meaningful estimates of costs and other impacts on our way of life.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - passfield resident (15th Dec 2023 - 11:11:41) Even more depressing. You might not live your life worrying about the future, but then you will be fine-future generations won't be. Don't you understand the science of this? Sounds like you might understand but don't care.Do you have children ? Grandchildren?

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Steve (16th Dec 2023 - 20:01:21) Man made climate change is simply a globalist scam

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Sam (17th Dec 2023 - 15:09:15) Utterly pointless troll magnet post, explain how renewable energy is a lie please. Renewable energy, solar, wind, hydro, please explain how the capture of for example billions of KWh of energy hitting the planet freely isn’t renewable? Then conversely explain how the extraction of a finite amount of s**t from the earth making an abhorrent mess as you extract it to then bloody burn it releasing known poisons into the atmosphere is a brilliant idea. If you love fossil fuels so much and believe there is nothing wrong with them then run a hose from the exhaust of your car into the passenger cabin and drive around about your normal business.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Steve miller (17th Dec 2023 - 17:24:05) I fear that you are wrong but that shouldn't mean charging of into the cul-de-sac of our current net zero policy.

Re: Renewable Energy - The Lie - Paul (17th Dec 2023 - 18:58:00) Sam - please go to any of the top 5 most polluting countries in the world and tell them there. Leave the people in the UK alone, we're not the problem. Here's the list for you: Chad Iraq Pakistan Bahrain Bangladesh

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