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Lords - Citizen (29th Jan 2024 - 13:48:31) Is it right that an unelected group of people can vote on parliamentary laws . The government of the day is elected by the people of this country the lords are not elected so why can they delay the will of the citizens of this country. They should not be able to delay important decisions made by the government..

Re: Lords - Ian (29th Jan 2024 - 14:52:47) Recent history has shown that public electoral decisions are not always for the best. Also do you really think our current elected chamber is any more responsible than the unelected? Our parliamentary democracy is deeply broken, we need a lot more than Lords reform. Politicians chasing populist votes have proven to be disastrous and in many cases, dishonest

Re: Lords - Darren (29th Jan 2024 - 16:10:50) The 'people of this country' don't elect our government, they elect their local MP to represent their constituency in the house of commons. Typically the party with the most MPs is then able to form a government. Whilst a government has certain executive powers new laws (which is presumably what you are referring to) are passed by parliament which is made up of the house of commons and the house of lords. The house of lords has the lawful right to scrutinise and suggest changes to proposed law. Should the house of lords consist of unelected individuals, not in my opinion, no.

Re: Lords - facts (29th Jan 2024 - 18:23:17) Citizen, You are taking about Rwanda. The same Rwanda scheme that did not appear in any election manifesto for any party. How can you talk about 'will of the citizens' for a policy no one has ever voted for? We've had two unelected prime ministers since this half-brained scheme was announced. That's two more people than we've sent to Rwanda, by the way. At a cost of 250 million. The government we vote for could reform the lords if it wanted to. If you want lords reform, vote for a party promising it rather than rambling on a community website.

Re: Lords - passfield resident (29th Jan 2024 - 21:23:32) I hope the House of Lords is able to delay the shameful and ridiculous Rwanda policy which will fail in any case as it is a gimmick and a sop to the right of the Conservative party. I'm sure Rishi Sunak wishes the policy had been laughed out of the room when it was first suggested but is too near an election to appear indecisive by giving it up. Rwandan citizens are currently applying for asylum here because they feel that they are in danger there. Apart from anything else, the government is supposed to give the taxpayers value for money. Nobody could argue that this policy is value for money.

Re: Lords - Pete (30th Jan 2024 - 07:35:59) Not only are they applying for asylum it is being granted. So in essence we are trying to send people to a country that is supposedly safe at the same time as accepting asylum seekers from that same country because its not. Sounds like the Tories to me.

Re: Lords - Local (30th Jan 2024 - 10:22:05) Just wondering why is it ok for France and the EU to send people to Rwanda but say we cannot. And why can’t France stop the boats leaving their shores it must be so simple to just slash the rubber dinghies it seems that France just wants to get rid of them on us . The EU seems to make it so difficult for immigrants to settle in their countries. France is a huge country compared to us but seems reluctant to welcome immigrants into their workplace making it so difficult to obtain work permits and blame us for being to soft and welcoming as a result we are bursting at the seams. Our very small Island can only take so much something has to be done.

Re: Lords - passfield resident (30th Jan 2024 - 16:41:55) Local-could you explain what you mean when you say we are "bursting at the seams"?

Re: Lords - Local (30th Jan 2024 - 18:05:25) Well Passfield Resident this little island of ours is filling up rapidly. Not enough houses even for people born and bred here jobs getting harder to get , hospitals overwhelmed, schools overwhelmed. Could go on but I suspect you will shoot me down that’s your perspective but I can’t see anything wrong with deporting ILLEGAL immigrants from this country we have plenty of genuine people coming through the correct system and they are vetted to combat terrorisom . We as a country have become a nation of many cultures and we are very accommodating to all but we must not lose sight of who we are . The people of this country stood up and told the government what they thought about leaving the EU and yes many are still moaning but that’s democracy yes I voted out and very glad I did as things have turned out dare I mention tractors in France.Anyway have a nice day.

Re: Lords - Joe (30th Jan 2024 - 19:09:19) Local you say the French will not grant work permits to asylum seekers immediately well I am sure we would not either. Not sure where you get your info from re France and the EU sending immigrants to Rwanda from?

Re: Lords - Local (30th Jan 2024 - 19:40:33) Joe it was in the media some time ago you must have missed it . As for work permits they drag their feet as much as possible again in the public domain and then blame us for trying harder.to accommodate all of them.

Re: Lords - passfield resident (30th Jan 2024 - 21:25:08) Local-I was hoping you could explain how we are bursting at the seams-some actual facts rather than the usual little englander / Brexiteer guff would have been nice. What have French tractors got to do with it? Our farmers have been crapped on by Brexit-it would be nice if they had a bit more power to influence how the country is run.

Re: Lords - Joe (30th Jan 2024 - 23:26:44) Local I think you obtain most of your incorrect info via the mail or express so no I would not have seen that the EU and French are sending people to live in Rwanda as I think it highly unlikely. You have not answered my question about why you think we are granting immediate work permits so why should the French do this? They do have unemployed people there too !

Re: Lords - Local (31st Jan 2024 - 10:37:01) Joe I didn’t say immediate I said difficult . As said drag their feet and then blame us for doing better. As for what papers people read rather childish thousands read all the papers that’s how the public learn about what’s going on and it’s not all rubbish it’s just what you choose to believe and it seems you don’t like some of the things that come out in the media. The French to their loss don’t like us getting on they put every obstacle in our way over brexit and lost and it hurts. They thought they were going to rule us something they have been trying to do for decades but it didn’t work. As for the statement from passfield resident little englanders just shows how he views this country why does he stay here if he is so against this wonderful country of ours.

Re: Lords - Penny Williamson (31st Jan 2024 - 10:43:31) Local Neither France or any other EU country has sent or is sending asylum seekers to Rwanda. I don't know where you got that information from. Please check your facts before spreading untrue statements.

Re: Lords - Local (31st Jan 2024 - 11:59:12) Yes penny you’re correct not yet but they the EU fund a scheme that sends Libyan refugees to Rwanda don’t see much difference back door perhaps.

Re: Lords - Joe (31st Jan 2024 - 12:07:58) Local if this country of ours is so “ wonderful” why are you constantly moaning on here about local and national issues ?

Re: Lords - Pete (31st Jan 2024 - 12:35:50) Local - Think you may have a bit of a persecution complex, you sound like a Millwall supporter "everybody hates us"

Re: Lords - Local (31st Jan 2024 - 12:44:41) Joe I NEVER moan about our great country I think the boot is on the other foot. You and several others are always doing that this country is a fantastic place to live.

Re: Lords - passfield resident (31st Jan 2024 - 15:10:09) Local-you have misrepresented my views, along with the rest of the stuff you are spouting about the French wanting to rule us and so on. The reason I find your views so ridiculous is that I do love this country but hate the nationalistic tone of people who have used the immigration issue to take us out of the EU and damage our economy. Along with the UKIP loons and closet racists (David Cameron's description, not mine) the two people happiest with Brexit were Trump and Putin .

Re: Lords - Local (31st Jan 2024 - 17:07:44) Passfield Resident glad you love this country. But what’s wrong with waving the flag as others do most EU countries are very nationalistic France especially. Why is it that people in this country who are patriotic get frowned upon. They put out flags and celebrate their country but if we put out flags ie Union Jack or George Cross people get upset I really don’t get it . We should be banging our drums same as the rest of them we are just as good. Ok you have your opinion about brexit but others do have a different opinion and are very happy with the present situation so that’s democracy if it all changes this year then we all have to abide by it even if we don’t like it .Again that’s what is very disappointing about the leave brigade they haven’t come to terms with it and tried to make it work just a fanatical obsession with the EU sad .

Re: Lords - Joe (31st Jan 2024 - 21:05:06) Some years back the English Flag was hi jacked as a symbol by the National Front. That is why most normal people do not want to be seen with it draped around them. There are loads of national occasions when there is plenty of flag waving. There is more than one way to be a patriot I do not need a flag to tell other people I am patriotic.

Re: Lords - Interested (1st Feb 2024 - 09:55:45) A very interesting thread lots of views. It seems that it’s all about the governments bill about sending refugees to Rwanda going through the lords. The interesting post about the EU funding a scheme to send refugees to Rwanda . So that means they approve Rwanda as a safe country to send people to . Gets a bit confusing they tell us we can’t do the same with our illegal emigrants?? . Our scheme is to send the boat people to Rwanda to stop the illegal crossings and save lives and to put a stop to trafficking. The refugees have come through several free countries and then spend thousands to cross to this country illegally they could save that money and apply to come legally but perhaps that’s the problem they might not be accepted?? for some reason. I may have got it all wrong but it seems straight forward to me Penny was spitting feathers about it so perhaps I have. See - fullfact.org/news/sir-jake-berry-asylum-seekers-rwanda

Re: Lords - Paul2 (1st Feb 2024 - 10:20:33) Was that fact checking for the first time on this forum? Are we seeing a move towards verification of comments?

Re: Lords - passfield resident (1st Feb 2024 - 11:12:42) Interested-Penny is correct.

Re: Lords - Penny Williamson (1st Feb 2024 - 11:42:40) Interested I was not spitting feathers as you so delicately put it. I was just stating a fact. Misinformation does so much harm.

Re: Lords - Interested (1st Feb 2024 - 12:07:03) So is EU sending refugees to Rwanda or not by the link they are by supporting the scheme. If that’s correct then why can’t we simple question.

Re: Lords - Joe (1st Feb 2024 - 12:13:19) Indeed so I was the first to reply on here that the story was not true only to be told I was not well enough informed. I still think certain newspapers are to blame for distortions of the truth and stirring up hatred.

Re: Lords - Interested (1st Feb 2024 - 12:38:52) Yes Joe poses the question. My thoughts are that if they are which seems the likely then Rwanda is deemed safe for our refugees so why are some fractions of our government and other interfering people trying to stop it . If it saves lives it must be a good thing. As said they are illegally coming to this country and costing us a fortune to keep they give thousands to traffickers why . I wish something could be done to satisfy everyone this can’t go on .

Re: Lords - Joe (1st Feb 2024 - 13:09:21) Even if it did come to pass - the likelihood is that the refugees will not be put off. Only a few are caught found and processed so the remaining will still not be deterred. After all we are an island with shores all around. Also there are those who arrive by plane on a short Student visa only to disappear totally with false identities. Not enough is made of that situation.

Re: Lords - passfield resident (1st Feb 2024 - 13:31:48) Interested. Try and at least come up with some arguments. You say illegal immigrants are costing us a lot -do you even know how much the Rwanda policy is costing?

Re: Lords - Pete (1st Feb 2024 - 14:17:54) Interested- This is a policy idea solely aimed at attracting votes from certain sections of society. It is certainly not about fairness and compassion and it cant be about the money as the figures don't stack up. Immigration, legal and illegal, is just a smokescreen trotted out to pass on the blame of the consequences of an inept government to someone else. We increasingly live in a very self selfish and self centred world.

Re: Lords - Darren (1st Feb 2024 - 16:26:49) For anyone who's actually interested in why the Lords can and should delay the Rwanda bill this article by David Allen-Green is worth a read: prospectmagazine.co.uk/ideas/law/64673/why-the-house-of-lords-can-and-should-delay-the-rwanda-bill

Re: Lords - passfield resident (1st Feb 2024 - 19:49:52) Darren-thanks for that

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