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Absolute Madness - Greenfingers (23rd Feb 2024 - 10:20:51) Good piece on page three of todays Haslemere Herald re the EHDC Local Plan and the "absolute madness" that East Hampshire and the SDNP do not draw up their local plans in conjunction with each other. With Liphook split in two by these bodies, some joined up thinking would serve both agencies better, not to mention the people of Liphook. Another example of "divide and conquer" from our elected (or in the case of SDNP, un-elected) representatives. Liphook is already full and the chipping away of our green spaces is both worrying and depressing in equal measure. There needs to be an holistic plan. And with another nine house proposed at the end of Devils Lane (see EHDC Planning Website), the pressure on the local infrastructure becomes intolerable; eg try getting a doctors appointment. The EHDC Draft Local Plan consultation ends on 4 March - make sure you have your say!

Re: Absolute Madness - Local (23rd Feb 2024 - 10:52:32) You’re banging your head against a brick wall they will not listen they know best.

Re: Absolute Madness - er (23rd Feb 2024 - 15:28:15) As a huge fan of the National Park I 100% support their independence from any external pressure, it's a slippery slope if you understand precedent, one noisy lot get you to cave in, you'll be caving in to everyone forever! Yes it's a shame that the charity who the wonderful Holman's left the manor to, in order to be a nature reserve and memory to their love of Liphook and it's countryside, was I guess out of hard accounting priorities, sold to developers. It's fortuitous that neither of them will benefit further by seeing it turned into another nasty little housing estate. Personally I think the proposed sites are ideal, one on a small, ugly little field full of shabby chicken slaughter warehouses, with great access to two roads and the station, a few houses here won't detract from anything, the second a currently underused field with no public access or pavements, again at the edge of an existing large housing estate, which incidentally apparently will give Liphook a great new and long awaited upgraded route to Hewshott Lane and therefore Bramshot Common via the urgently hard to use BOAT off Haslemere Road, the third will again complete a logical building spot and the end of Headley Road , just before the A3, all three of these sites will be manageable in size and complete the logical infill spaces, without blitzing the cherished Manor in the middle of the village, which was meant to be open to all of us and who has been inviting us in, nobody, so no sympathy . Anyway, ain't going to happen, this is, so.lets move on.

Re: Absolute Madness - Old resident (23rd Feb 2024 - 17:02:07) Er also a supporter of the national park concept but it’s a shame that it’s not run properly. Take liphook a strip of farmland that cannot be accessed by the public but could provide the community with benefits the land is just sitting there unused. This I find very troubling if a party like the national parks people cannot negotiate to support a community that has grown tremendously in the past few years and needs to put houses in the right place so as not to damage further the centre of the community ie the square. You are completely of course when you say the other sites will not impact on the square how are all the vehicles going to access the A3 and of course it’s the thin edge of the wedge if they get permission it opens the flood gates to more and more development on that side of the square so know is the time to call a halt until something can be done to get traffic around the square.

Re: Absolute Madness - Avenue Resident (23rd Feb 2024 - 20:39:08) Er have you thought where will the traffic go to access the A3 from headley road development I will tell you through the avenue which is a nightmare know with school traffic and bordon traffic going to Bohunt School and back and also going to the A3 . EHDC don’t seem to care about anything in liphook just bung house’s anywhere. The most efficient place to put houses is Bohunt Northcott plan and Panally farm hewshot lane the most outstanding site’s.

Re: Absolute Madness - M (24th Feb 2024 - 09:39:19) @ ER Don't agree with you regards the SDNP. Yes they should have their own planning policies and agenda but when that conflicts with a communities needs you'd hope they would listen, discuss and appreciate that compromises are sometime required. At the moment the SDNP don't even accept that Liphook is a community within the Park, let alone discuss with EHDC what is the best plan for the future development of the village. I agree with you that the Headley Road site is an ideal location for development. Close to the schools (which generate all the traffic through the Square) and can access the A3 without going through the Square. I do question however why the site has had it's allocation reduced by 50% from 40 to 20 homes compare to the previous plan? The Haslemere Road site isn't ideal as it's so far from the schools (2.2km to the Infants School) and will increase traffic through the Square. The site is also completely within the River Wey Conservation area, surely that is to protect it from development? Not sure where you get the idea of "apparently will give Liphook a great new and long awaited upgraded route to Hewshott Lane and therefore Bramshott Common via the urgently hard to use BOAT off Haslemere Road" from? There is nothing stated that new pavements and a new public footpath will be provided, just a junction opposite Devils Lane for the development. The Chiltley Farm site is completely wrong. The site is agricultural land, not brownfield land as EHDC state, with a working chicken farm producing (not slaughtering) 2.5 million broiler chicks a year for the UK food production, an issue highlighted recently that the UK needs to be more self sufficient and so needs to be kept. To say it's "on a small, ugly little field full of shabby chicken slaughter warehouses" shows just how ill informed you are. To say that a green field with working agricultural builds are ugly and need to be replaced with a high density housing estate seems a bit perverse. If that was a valid reason to build houses then what's wrong with doing the same on the fields on Portsmouth Road and Longmoor Road..... oh forgot, they're in the SDNP so makes them special!!! Not sure where the great access to two roads are either? The only access is through an existing estate (designated a site of special housing character so needs protecting from unsuitable developments) and all traffic needs to go through the Square to access the A3 and schools. Being 2.6km from the Infant school means all parents will drive their kids as well! The site also suffers from terrible flooding during heavy rain. The area of the "green field" adjacent to the railway embankment regularly has a large pond of water there, hence why all the agricultural building are at the opposite end. This is such a problem that Network Rail have objected to the current application due to the increase run off from all that concrete and tarmac from a (apparently much nicer looking) housing estate undermining the embankment. It can also be noted that Thames Water has objected due to the fact there is no more capacity in the foul sewer network at that end of the village, and there's no feasible option to increase the capacity. The site has already been refused planning permission once, as well as being refused under appeal, and the current application is over a year old with no decision made, purely because the developer can't remedy the objections from the 400+ public objectors and all the statutory bodies who also objected. Overall a completely ridiculous and unsustainable allocation. No one is asking to "Blitz" Bohunt Manor (not sure why you think it's cherished, just another large manor house in the middle of unused fields), what they're asking for is that Liphook is taken as a whole and any development proposals for the village looks at the wider picture and decides where the best location is to build any new houses. The SDNP is the problem, not the saviour, for Liphook.

Re: Absolute Madness - Dismayed (24th Feb 2024 - 10:02:56) Totally agree with green fingers EHDC seems to be in total disarray as regards liphook they ask us to voice our opinions then do the exact opposite. It’s not rocket science to see where houses should be built you only have to look at a map of liphook all the sites they have proposed are totally in the wrong place and will make a huge impact on the square the headly road site will impact on the avenue and the square. All of our services are at breaking point traffic is a nightmare several years ago it was said the square was at capacity it must be way over that now and with no way around it something has got to be done. EHDC should halt all development until a way around the square is sorted.

Re: Absolute Madness - Richie (24th Feb 2024 - 10:15:50) Given the level of corruption within local councils it’s amazing they’re still allowed to operate within any real governance. Liphook as a whole is at maximum capacity and until the roads, public services and basic infrastructure is revamped there shouldn’t be any further developments approved. It’s sad to say but the brown envelope still seems to permit development without any benefit to the community overall.

Re: Absolute Madness - Penny Williamson (24th Feb 2024 - 11:21:18) Totally agree with Old Resident, M and and Avenue Resident. Liphook should never have been split by the boundaries of the SDNP. That was the madness.

Re: Absolute Madness - Oldie (25th Feb 2024 - 13:22:31) Totally agree with M the National Parks in liphook have done nothing for us . Quite ridiculous saying we are the gateway to the park what park?? You can’t access any of it around Bohunt manor accept for one foot path across leading to weavers down yes weavers should be in the park that is accessible to the public all the park people have done for liphook is to cause chaos. They should be called to answer questions about their position because liphook is suffering.

Re: Absolute Madness - Richard (25th Feb 2024 - 21:26:03) The council is beyond useless and do nothing meaningful in the community. They have a meeting for the sake of having a meeting so they can claim their travel allowance and any other expense they incur while having a meaningless meeting about nothing. The planning authority is useless beyond belief with no real conviction or plan.

Re: Absolute Madness - Oldie (26th Feb 2024 - 09:48:03) Spot on Richard and where are our district councillors we used to have good ones that shouted from the rooftops for liphook and as for county councillor don’t think we have one . And don’t talk about the Parrish council just as well not have them. It’s all just a big farce liphook gets nothing.

Re: Absolute Madness - Paul2 (26th Feb 2024 - 11:20:37) Realistically the only way Liphook can benefit from being the 'gateway to the SDNP' is by us - the residents - making certain our voices and intentions are heard. Whether that's our views on transport, local amenities or objecting to excess housing - we have to lobby our local representatives. The reason we need to do this is because e.g. developers will be doing it, probably with teams dedicated to 'making their case'. So we have to be equal. There were some local groups of interested parties, but I'm not sure where they stand currently, or if they are active. Again, developers WILL be active!

Re: Absolute Madness - Oldie (26th Feb 2024 - 12:02:42) Sorry Paul2 there is no way we can ever be the gateway to the park because the park isn’t here it’s private farm land. As said weavers down yes because it’s open land for everyone so where they get that liphook is the gateway to the park mind boggling.

Re: Absolute Madness - Jen (26th Feb 2024 - 14:02:22) Perhaps we should stop using the term "National Park" and instead use "National Conservation Area" or "National Protected Landscape" or something along those lines? There seems to be a misunderstanding of what a National Park is. It's not a "park" to which the public has unfettered access, it's an area of landscape that has been deemed worthy of preservation and that therefore has certain protections and restrictions attached. Within a National Park, there will very likely be some land that is designated as open access, but there will be much that is private. The Bohunt Manor land is just one of many thousands of privately owned parcels of land within the SDNP.

Re: Absolute Madness - er (26th Feb 2024 - 14:25:37) Oldie, the land in a British National Park doesn't have to be publicly owned, that would have cost billions and served no useful purpose, the purpose of the Park Authority is to preserve a beautiful, valuable and historic landscape for generations to come, to facilitate public access to enjoy and roam (having roamed much of it myself by car, bike and foot I can say it's staggeringly beautiful and ancient) and avoid overdevelopment where clearly without it, the pressure to build everywhere from fields to villages to towns would be persistent, calculated, overwhelming and insidious, with our weak and corrupt elected councillors up and down the land caving in to pressure, or carelessly selling off the silver for the price of a free holiday! It's naive to assume otherwise, we all know the sort, they like to sit high and mighty on councils and look important, but intellectually are like lambs to the slaughter when the rich developers, with their fancy lawyers, surveyors and accountants come prowling with slick presentations and cheap gifts, painted beads for the natives, this wisely protects our parks from our very selves! That's why the borders are absolute, your best hope is to convince central government to change the borders, which they've shown no intention of doing at the present time, going on about things that can't happen here on TalkBack is futile.

Re: Absolute Madness - Oldie (26th Feb 2024 - 15:16:15) Well er quote the purpose of the park authority is to preserve the beautiful valuable and historic landscape to facilitate public access to enjoy and roam quite agree but that’s not happening in liphook there is nothing beautiful or historic about a piece of unused farmland with NO Access to the public. Yes there is some land beyond it that should be opened up to the public but unfortunately the previous owners would not allow it you cannot roam around the wet lands. So here we are back to a piece of land that should be included in the EHDC plan but can’t be because of the national parks head in the sand people. Liphook looses out yet again just carry on putting houses in the wrong place and making more traffic through the square but that doesn’t matter.

Re: Absolute Madness - Penny Williamson (26th Feb 2024 - 16:50:19) er I should be very, very careful of what you write about the council and its councillors on this forum or anywhere else unless you have cast iron proof of corruption, dishonest dealings and illegal transactions. I quote from your post: "with our weak and corrupt elected councillors up and down the land caving in to pressure, or carelessly selling off the silver for the price of a free holiday!" There are still laws of libel in the UK and remember even though you post anonymously the Editor has your contact details.

Re: Absolute Madness - er (26th Feb 2024 - 20:09:44) Thanks for your legal input Penny, are you a lawyer, I suspect not a libel lawyer anyway, I don't think every councillor in the land is totally useless, just most, let's be fair, many will be ok, so we call that a sweeping statement, incidentally I could equally direct this to all other politicians, now if they are all so thin skinned they shouldn't be in politics, so chill!

Re: Absolute Madness - Richard (26th Feb 2024 - 20:25:08) Hi Penny, are you saying that the parish council is doing a good job? Please do enlighten us and let the community know five positive impacts the parish council has had for the community in the last year. And also the the same question for EHDC. Next thing we’ll be advised is that the local council is in administration! Or maybe they’ll simple take another planning donation to stay afloat……… One for me and one for you……… and so on. They couldn’t even keep a skate park open for the kids, they let it go to ruin to provide an excuse to remove it. I’m guessing there’s no shortage of funds for reimbursement of expenses!

Re: Absolute Madness - Joe (27th Feb 2024 - 11:09:58) Penny, to libel or slander someone you have to actually name a person not make a vague reference to councillors not being honest. And if the allegation made about the person is true then it is not slander or libel. It would be difficult to prove as all contentious / delicate council motions are not discussed with the public present and minutes of those exempt meetings are redacted or nothing published at all. If an individual councillor /council official were trying to get a development through because they had been given incentives who would possibly know about it? Hardly going to stand up in public and confess are they?

Re: Absolute Madness - er (27th Feb 2024 - 12:15:00) Penny, I have said before and I'll repeat, you are a good person who tries to be helpful. Rest assured I do not believe that some 20,000 councillors up and down the land are all useless or corrupt, hopefully very few, so I repeat that was a sweeping statement and aimed at noone in particular, which I hope that clarifies. However the point that National Parks provide necessary protection to the weak against the powerful , who often play on the incompetence of local governments across the country, in order to protect our remaining irreplaceable natural assets from fools (that's us the public too). To address Richard's point, planning within or without national parks has nothing to do with parish councils, it's all done at county or national level, the MPs I'm sure we can all agree are usually the worst of all of us, you may tell I'm no fan of politicians but a huge fan of nature!

Re: Absolute Madness - Penny Williamson (28th Feb 2024 - 10:06:31) @ Richard where have I said that either the Parish Council or the District Council are doing a good job. I was making the point that before accusing anyone of corruption one should have proof to back up your statements otherwise mud sticks and you know the old adage "no smoke without fire". Joe you are right one cannot sue a council for libel only named individual councillors which make the accusations, if they do not have concrete proof, even more unfair. Keyboard warriors take your evidence to the paid officials. If you have cast iron proof of corruption they will take this seriously.

Re: Absolute Madness - Penny Williamson (28th Feb 2024 - 16:25:53) er thank you for the compliment although I am not sure that I am a particularly "good" person. I am probably no better or worse than many people. However I would add to your statement: "so I repeat that was a sweeping statement and aimed at noone in particular" the words "an unsubstantiated" sweeping statement" unless you are in possession of proof of corruption.

Re: Absolute Madness - er (28th Feb 2024 - 18:43:14) Penny I have said that already, 20,000 councils are not useless or corrupt, let's be clear hopefully none are and it was perhaps a silly statement. However I believe noone reading that would think that a poster called er on a local chat called Absolute Madness was an expert arbiter of local government and would understand it was about no-one and a sweeping statement about our politics. I'm happy to clarify that, thanks for pointing it out, you have every right to defend the councils, for all their criticisms they are our councils and I'll try to be more positive in future. Perhaps surprisingly I also think we need a relief roadto the square, I just cannot see how or where it can go now and I'm also a huge fan of the national.park, so call me confused, yes I probably am, real will become more and more needed going forward!

Re: Absolute Madness - Eric Benson (3rd Mar 2024 - 13:14:04) Don’t forget to lodge your views on the EHDC draft district plan, the consultation ends tomorrow, 4th March. Be as critical as you wish, be firm but polite. Regards Eric

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