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Public sector pay - Depressed (20th Jul 2024  14:04:59) See the Teachers and NHS are asking for big pay rises going to cost 4 billion. Teachers say if they don’t get it they will strike here we go again.

Re: Public sector pay - D (20th Jul 2024  16:01:42) Might be a good time to review the school holidays as well. Kids don't need all this time off nor do teachers. The summer holiday was for children to help with the harvest. It would be illegal for them to do so now and they are children until age eighteen so that's even less children not helping with the harvest. Six weeks holiday a year is plenty.

Re: Public sector pay - AF (20th Jul 2024  16:27:58) We may have a new government but the fact is there is no money. It does not matter how deserving the various public workers are there is no money. So people know I am a public worker and don't expect a big rise this year.

Re: Public sector pay - Local (20th Jul 2024  17:10:42) According to the figures labour have inherited a much better situation than they left the conservatives last time. So they could actually make this country much better if they did it right. But don’t hold your breath with the unions let loose wage demands will go through the roof especially public workers the poor old private sector will suffer no huge wage rises there payed for by the public that actually earns the wealth of the country we shall see .

Re: Public sector pay - D (20th Jul 2024  17:16:43) Agree absolutely, AF. A former public sector employee myself, I remember a time when we went about five years with no rise at all. Given how the teachers never made up the time lost through COVID, and how erroneous their self awarded GCSE grades were, I don't think they deserve one.

Re: Public sector pay - Ian (20th Jul 2024  17:51:34) Retail shop workers (many in Sainsbury’s etc worked throughout COVID) are totally unrepresented, have no perks and are at the lower end of the pay scale. And they don’t go on strike!!!!

Re: Public sector pay - D (21st Jul 2024  01:14:34) Teachers were the only public sector who did not work through the pandemic. Health workers did, transport did, emergency services did, shop workers did, Ministry of Defence did, teachers stayed at home.

Re: Public sector pay - Susie (21st Jul 2024  09:14:55) @D Not correct teachers taught online to learners in secondary schools, granted not the same as on site every day. & They also had to take turns to attend school to support the system put in place when schools opened for front line COVID workers to send their kids to school. We all know teachers work many more hours than they are contracted for, which is why they are leaving in droves.

Re: Public sector pay - C (21st Jul 2024  09:24:07) D - are you serious?! Of COURSE teachers worked through the pandemic! Who do you think it was running all the virtual classes and setting the tasks? Also, do you not think the government were the ones dictating what would happen with schools?

Re: Public sector pay - Depressed (21st Jul 2024  09:58:42) Well it seems that the new chancellor is caving in already going to give huge pay rises to public workers great the well paid going to get even more. The system is totally the wrong way round the people that earn the country’s wealth should benefit the most it’s demoralising. The unions should be disbanded and a more modern system put in place that benefits everyone.

Re: Public sector pay - Grape (21st Jul 2024  10:45:19) I concur with Depressed. The concept of unions, industrial action (more like inaction) irresponsible strikes, political protests all too often a face for vandalism destruction, greed and violence. Free market principals should be unleashed. You don't like the job? Step aside and allow others a go. You don't like the pay? Put in more time, more effort, fewer "rights" demands. Burnt out? Over-stressed? Over-burdened? The facilities are paid for 24/7 365 days a year, so make full use of them rather than get paid for time off.

Re: Public sector pay - D (21st Jul 2024  12:08:16) C, the teachers union leader was on telly nearly every day giving excuses as to why teachers shouldn't go back to work while the rest of the public sector never stayed home anyway. Did they catch up lost teaching time due to COVID? No, they could have made up that lost time by reducing their three months annual leave. Were the grades they awarded themselves when exams didn't take place accurate? No, exam results following COVID were down on the grades awarded by teachers. Room for improvement, could do better.

Re: Public sector pay - D (21st Jul 2024  12:10:30) Depressed, I am a former public sector employee. If working in the public sector is so great why did we have such a job recruiting staff?

Re: Public sector pay - Depressed (21st Jul 2024  12:20:08) Spot on Grape this country will never prosper under union rule they are dinosaurs of a bygone age. We must work our socks off everyone stop all this sick leave and working from home get back into the work place put in the hours not 35 more like 45 maybe then we can have wage rises.

Re: Public sector pay - Ricardo (22nd Jul 2024  14:57:54) No wonder you're depressed, a 35 hour week/4 day working week is what we should all be on. Why shouldn't train drivers be on ÂŁ100k to sleep behind the wheel of an automated machine. And why shouldn't teachers enjoy 13 weeks paid leave every year. We don't live in America or North Korea after all!

Re: Public sector pay - J (23rd Jul 2024  10:20:48) D, I was working for a school during the pandemic. All of our teachers were working the whole time. Most of them worked during the so-called "holidays" as well, planning lessons, setting work, recording lessons, attending online training sessions and meetings. Some were working from home but many were coming into school and working in isolation in their own classrooms, labs and work rooms. This was in an independent school. I don't know what was happening in state schools but, as far as we were concerned, our pupils' parents were paying for and expecting an exceptional education for their children and we, as a school staff, were doing everything that could be done in order to meet those expectations.

Re: Public sector pay - Depressed (23rd Jul 2024  12:04:54) Recardo you missed out working from home ie doing the gardening taking kids to school shopping or the best one working from the beach very good pay for that one . But our public sector workers are so badly paid they need a huge pay rise pull the other one .

Re: Public sector pay - D (26th Jul 2024  08:25:28) With all the expense of having to make special arrangements for the ever increasing numbers of "special needs" children, and with the expense of having to continue free school meals into school holidays, as well as the school breakfast clubs, how can there be any money left for the ever increasing wage demands of teachers? When I were a lad it were the parents responsibility to feed their children, not the tax payer. Still, that's progress?

Re: Public sector pay - Ian (26th Jul 2024  09:18:02) D, time has left you and thankfully your oppressive Victorian values are behind us. Luckily for you, we are all mortal so the struggle to adapt to change is not infinite! That being said I think it is absolutely morally wrong for teachers, doctor and nurses to strike regardless of the rights or wrongs of their pay claims. Public sector pay, and modern work challenges in general are complex issues, probably beyond the understanding of most on this forum!

Re: Public sector pay - Joe (26th Jul 2024  09:49:46) Ian are you are implying that we are all thick or that public sector pay should be simplified ? Or both?

Re: Public sector pay - Ian (26th Jul 2024  14:34:54) @ Joe. If the hat fits……… ;-)

Re: Public sector pay - D (26th Jul 2024  15:50:11) Ian, oppressive Victorian values? It is oppressive being encouraged by the state to suffer the indignity of asking the tax payer for free handouts all the time. Surely it is better to have the pride and self respect of providing for one's children oneself?

Re: Public sector pay - Ian (26th Jul 2024  17:26:14) @ D. The welfare state certainly needs reform but my issue with you is more broad based! You are certainly entitled to your opinions but, looking at your many contributions to talkback you clearly crave a return to an oppressive intolerant and harsh society that thankfully we have moved on from. In many ways your frequent posts remind me of fascist values. I do however defend you right to express yourself

Re: Public sector pay - D (26th Jul 2024  19:10:03) Thankyou Ian, that's most kind of you.

Re: Public sector pay - D (28th Jul 2024  08:34:31) Ian, old chap. Having looked up the definition of "fascist", I don't see any similarity between fascism and my contributions on this website. I do think you're resorting to the millennium old last resort of calling someone a witch if you don't like them. No doubt had this thread been about transgenders and I refused to accept there are more than two genders, you would be calling me a homophobic bigot. Had this thread been about immigration, you would be calling me a racist for saying the country is struggling to house them all. I do feel you are one of these people who support free speech only if you agree with what the person is saying, if you disagree you call them derogatory terms such as a "fascist" or "wanting to return to harsh and oppressive Victorian values". I have no shame in believing of you want something you have to work for it.

Re: Public sector pay - Ian (28th Jul 2024  14:13:23) D, perception is not about how you view yourself but more about how others perceive you. Of course I do not expect you to understand this, a typical symptom of bigotry and intolerance!

Re: Public sector pay - Depressed (28th Jul 2024  20:56:54) Ian and D think you have gone of subject. It’s about the public service workers demanding huge wage rises and striking if they don’t get it . In my opinion they certainly don’t deserve it the private sector have to tighten their belts and accept reasonable rises.

Re: Public sector pay - D (29th Jul 2024  08:19:43) Depressed, may I refer you to my previous comment of "if working in the public sector is so great why did we have such a problem recruiting staff." May I also refer you to my comment suggesting school holidays be reduced to bring teachers in line with the rest of the public sector. Why are you trying to set the private and public sector against each other anyway? I worked in the public sector most of my life and I wasn't earning any more or less than my private sector jobs. It would be interesting to know how many of these people who malign the public sector have ever actually worked in the public sector.

Re: Public sector pay - Grape (29th Jul 2024  08:56:01) Good to be back on topic. D, when your comparing your past earnings in the public sector with those of the private sector, have you taken account of the huge additional benefit public sectors enjoy and and take for granted compared with self-employed? Paid time off (holidays, sick etc), pension, insurance and the list goes on. Someone has to pay for those luxurious unequivocal benefits. Self-employed people pay tax, public sector enjoy the benefits.

Re: Public sector pay - D (29th Jul 2024  10:20:57) Grape, I did not "enjoy" any benefits in my public sector jobs than my private sector jobs. Five weeks annual leave in both, contributory pension in both, minimal sick leave in both. Please tell me what greater benefits I had in my public sector jobs than my private sector jobs. Have you ever worked in the public sector?

Re: Public sector pay - Editor (29th Jul 2024  10:28:50) From indeed.co.uk 9 benefits of working in the public sector Here are nine benefits of working in the public sector to consider when applying for jobs: 1. Job security Public sector jobs have full government backing, which usually lets them promise more stability than most for-profit organisations, which are vulnerable to closures and sudden bankruptcy. When you work in a public sector job, it's much more secure during times of economic downturn. If you work for the civil service, budget cuts may result in you moving to another department, but a private organisation may instead let staff go with little warning in the same situation. Many people prioritise stability when looking for a job, as this helps them advance their careers and work towards their long-term goals. This also massively reduces stress for employees, who know their position is safe as long as they continue to perform well. The consistency of regular pay also allows you to budget or plan for the future. If these benefits seem attractive, you might fare well in the public sector. 2. Higher average pay Pay in the public sector is not only more consistent, but it may also be significantly higher than many private jobs, where you might use the same skills to complete similar tasks but for less money. This usually depends on the role and organisation, but it's worth checking if there are any public jobs in your sector with better pay. As money is a priority for many, the public sector may have much to offer. The public sector represents many industries and skills, so you might easily find a role which fits you, no matter your field or abilities. Checking how much the public sector typically pays for roles you're interested in may help you determine your employment priorities. Many public jobs employ pay review bodies, which regularly assess if you get enough for your work and may recommend sector-wide pay rises. 3. Flexible work hours One way that public roles are less demanding is that they're typically more flexible in terms of accommodating an employee's unique circumstances, including how many hours they're able to work. For example, you might only be available for part-time work due to childcare requirements. You may be able to negotiate hours which work for you in many of these jobs or even choose to work from home a few days each week, providing a higher level of convenience. This also reduces the likelihood of an unexpected and impractical schedule change. When employers accommodate an employee's circumstances, they're usually able to work to a higher standard. Some people may prefer to work at certain hours due to being more productive at that time, which means they may perform better than if they were to work a more typical shift. 4. Helping the community The public sector allows you to contribute towards your community in various ways, such as by working in healthcare or producing reports which help steer government policy implementations. Every role that counts as part of the public sector has the betterment of the country or local area as its main focus. As taxpayers fund these positions, this instils a clear sense of community in everything they do and makes their successes feel more rewarding. Many people enjoy jobs where they use their skills or develop new ones to help others. This is why public sector work may be especially fulfilling, as employees know their work goes towards improving people's lives. The extent and scale of this vary, but their overarching goal remains and serves as powerful motivation for employees. 5. Availability of staff training Public sector roles go beyond training staff for that particular job and often provide further training, which helps them reach their full potential and even apply for new roles with greater responsibilities. There are usually many opportunities to attend optional training sessions and develop new skills, which improve how you perform in your current role. This also shows that you're a good candidate for any other public jobs that might become available. In private sector positions, it's common for you to only receive the most important training that relates to your current role. This may limit your opportunities for growth and leave you without the skills or experience to switch jobs later in life. Public sector training gives you the confidence to apply for alternative jobs that fit your specific interests and long-term career goals. 6. Pension schemes The fiscal employee benefits differ between the many public sector positions, but pensions in the public sector are usually somewhat higher than private pensions. This means you're likely to get more money per month after you retire, which may incentivise you to stay within the public sector your entire life. This helps you secure a comfortable life for yourself once you permanently finish work and doesn't come at the expense of a higher wage. Pensions are sometimes difficult to understand, and younger employees may not consider them when looking for long-term employment. No matter what your age is when applying, planning for your future and investigating your pension options helps you secure a substantial pension sum once you retire. This proactivity allows you to secure a guaranteed pension, significantly reducing any pension-related stress that might otherwise emerge, especially later in life. 7. Wide range of opportunities Private sector jobs are highly competitive, so the positions you pursue may have very limited availability compared to public sector equivalents, with much higher skill requirements. Public roles cover various fields and positions, including secondary school teachers, police officers, paramedics and counsellors. If you're unsure about which job to pursue, you may easily find roles that suit you and your skill set. There are over five million people currently working within the public sector, which is a significant amount of the country's working population and shows the sheer scale and variety of the available positions. Many of these jobs are always in high demand due to their essential nature, including roles in emergency services. Make sure you fully investigate positions that relate to your skills, as the sheer breadth of public sector jobs available may introduce you to roles you never previously considered. 8. Less demanding atmosphere Many public sector employees regard these jobs as less demanding than their private counterparts, which is partly attributed to the stability they offer. Though certain public roles, especially in emergency services, are highly demanding, they're still exempt from the competitiveness of the private sector. This competitiveness usually places employees under a lot of pressure, which may negatively affect their performance due to the resulting stress. Without this competition, public sector employees emphasise the quality of their work and are typically more receptive to newcomers. These positions frequently provide full training and aim to help employees develop the necessary skills on-the-job if they don't already have them. This means you may have more success entering the workforce via the public sector, as many entry-level private jobs still have intense requirements. 9. Room for growth as an employee The opportunities available during public sector employment go beyond training in new skills, as many of these roles allow you to shadow other departments or higher-ranking employees. You may also choose to switch teams, a process called secondment, and get a feel for the work they do. This broadens your worth as an employee and may help you get a promotion if a more suitable role becomes available. There are no set rules for how private organisations manage promotions, with this typically happening on a case-by-case basis and depending on the owner's preferences. Public sector promotions usually involve actively putting yourself forward for a higher-level role, but you may instead decide to move laterally and join a separate team full-time. When working in the public sector, you might secure more opportunities to develop your career the way you want.

Re: Public sector pay - D (29th Jul 2024  13:18:26) Editor/Grape, I don't recognise any of the information that you show. Why don't you ask someone in the public sector instead of a private sector concern like "Indeed." Let's consider the advantages of working in the private sector/self employed:- you can get away with not declaring all your income thereby paying less tax, as if paying 2% less national insurance isn't enough. Of course, you could run up thousands in company debts, have the whole lot written off through bankruptcy, then start a new company with your dog as the registered C.E.O. while you pull the strings and owe lots of people lots of money all over again. While the public sector dutifully pay their full tax every month.

Re: Public sector pay - Depressed (29th Jul 2024  15:51:47) Well D I have two family members teachers that are on fantastic pay and they are not high up and there pensions are astronomical compared to the private sector. As for self employed they come off worse having only a basic pension after paying two lots of national insurance so have to provide for themselves and that costs a fortune.

Re: Public sector pay - Joe (29th Jul 2024  16:41:52) Only the self employed or those running their own business can get away with that D. I worked for a large private company all my working life and tax was properly deducted every month by the Human Resources department which also conducted regular downsizing of staff leading to many involuntary redundancies. Not as wonderful as you make it seem. Oh and very little paid holiday.

Re: Public sector pay - D (29th Jul 2024  19:05:40) The public sector (civil service pension scheme) currently pay 6.7% of their income towards their pension. The Workplace pension scheme (which I believe is compulsory for the private sector) pay 5% towards their pension. Do I really have to explain why civil service pensions pay out more? You only get out what you put in. As I've said before, if the public sector is so great why do they have such a problem recruiting and retaining staff. Public sector bashing seems frequent on this website but it is worth remembering the public sector employ a lot of private sector companies. Do you think the N.H.S. have a special department to manufacture M.R.I. scanners? Do you think the M.o.D. have a tank and submarine factory? There are some really outdated views of the public sector on this website, or is it Liphook?

Re: Public sector pay - D (30th Jul 2024  07:48:55) Joe, I was made redundant as many times in the public sector as i was in the private sector, with no offer of alternative employment. Not as wonderful as the editor's claims by the private sector employment website "Indeed" state. My first job was private sector and I took out a private pension before I was twenty, which will pay me more than my public sector pension. Once again, not as wonderful as "Indeed" claim. There seems to be a lot of whining these days but no-one seems to want to make provision for themselves, but according to Ian that would be fascism.

Re: Public sector pay - D (31st Jul 2024  08:00:29) As for holiday, statutory five and a half weeks in both private and public sector, the only advantage in public sector was that you could carry over two weeks from the previous year if you wanted to. Oh, and we did get one day off for the Queen's birthday, whoopee!

Re: Public sector pay - Depressed (31st Jul 2024  10:56:28) Back to the thread so why are the teachers and others threatening to strike for huge pay rises when the private sector accepts normal rises. The public sector are already paid good money with all the perks so why strike. That’s the crucial point the unions of public workers strike at the drop of a hat for no good reason which does so much damage to the country. Pensioners can’t go on strike and this government seems to want to crucify the older generation making them pay for the public sector pay rises completely the wrong way round. It’s time the public sector tighten their belts. And as for the train drivers they should be ashamed of themselves.

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