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22 billion black hole - Sammy (14th Sep 2024  19:53:01) - Office of Budget Responsibility calculated that Brexit would cost ÂŁ32 billion cost per annum. - Cambridge Econometrics says ÂŁ140bn less in 2023 than it would have been had the UK remained in the Single Market. So approx ÂŁ40 billion per year. - Bloomberg found that Brexit is costing the UK economy ÂŁ100 billion a year. These are three estimates, there are plenty more, and not one showing a cash positive result of Brexit, and every estimate on the cost of Brexit per annum is well in excess of the ÂŁ22 billion black hole. Essentially, had we remained there would be absolutely no black hole at all, does make me wonder if the winter fuel payment removal was punishment for the old people whom overwhelmingly voted to leave.. if so good on Labour, those the voted out should take the burden of what they have down to this once great country. Own goal of the century

Re: 22 billion black hole - Editor (14th Sep 2024  20:33:22) Sam - fact check, again .. forbesindia.com/article/explainers/top-10-largest-economies-in-the-world/86159/1# It puts the UK as #6 in the World, ahead of France.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Leaver (14th Sep 2024  23:03:23) What a load of tosh Sam . The editor has shown we are ahead of France and WE are paying them to stop the boats leaving their shores and what are they doing having a cup of tea watching them leave. Thank god we are out the biggest problem is this terrible government we have not a clue how to run a country.

Re: 22 billion black hole - AF (15th Sep 2024  08:25:29) Sammy The referendum voted to leave and we left, I admit the divorce deal was messed up but the idea to leave was right, and I have no regrets. Sammy MOVE ON, and get over it.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Grape (15th Sep 2024  09:34:00) Sammy (I seem to recall this name with relation to other profoundly confused past postings) raises an interesting point. According to Sammy, the role of government is to punish it's citizens (in the case of winter fuel - to the death) for their democratic choices. This draconian approach is mirrored by what we see in Two Tier Keir Corbyn: Banning what people enjoy, throwing twitters into prison, releasing Labour voting harmful prisoners, ignoring crime and corruption when it's by Labour supporters, supporting terrorists, war mongering, gagging free speech etc. Sammy, the role of government is to carry out the will of the people, rather than stifle and eliminate public dissent. This system is called Democracy, you appear to have a better idea?

Re: 22 billion black hole - AR (15th Sep 2024  14:12:32) Sammy Anybody can calculate a figure to fit their narrative. You do not seem to have a grasp of what the European parliament was about and the huge amounts of money wasted in it. Their offices were costly. The rules were ridiculous. You wont remember the butter, milk,and beef mountains of the 1970's. If you produced too much you had to scrap it. Totally bonkers. If the black hole was that large then Starmer should never have paid the train drivers more money, they were already on an inflated wage in my opinion. He caved in too, paying the doctors. People cannot have more of what is not there. As for the pensioners, they built a world for you, and were the kingpin of our country. I fear the generation of today will never have that strength of character to take our country forward judging by your illogical post.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Local (15th Sep 2024  14:39:42) We are doing far better out than the EU countries are doing at the moment. Best thing we ever did if we had a government that backed this country we would flourish. This government are going to ruin us we need to back our businesses lower taxes to help generate more people to start their own companies it’s the backbone of this country . You have to have more people to take the risk and create jobs something the unions don’t understand all they want to do is screw every penny out of business then they go bankrupt and everyone is out of a job . Entrepreneurs create jobs a wealth for the country something this government hates. All the money is gradually going out of the country big business won’t tolerate being victimised.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Truth (15th Sep 2024  15:59:26) The ÂŁ22bn was a run-rate overspend against total Govt spending of ÂŁ1.2 trillion. It's 1.83%. Or less than 2%. Except you don't get many dramatic headlines and political point-scoring when you say we need to increase taxes to fill a 'less than 2%' run-rate.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Ian (15th Sep 2024  20:09:37) I think local you have missed the other problem that has plagued the nation for many years. Corporate greed! Yes, Labour is in the Unions pocket but the Conservatives are in corporate big business pockets and they are as damaging to the UK as the Unions. The whole current system, both left and right is unfit for purpose, corrupt and self serving

Re: 22 billion black hole - Sammy (15th Sep 2024  23:01:18) The Office of Budget Responsibility isn’t a narrative. It exists to provide independent economic forecasts and independent analysis of the public finances to the Treasury. It has more expertise on the matter than anyone including me that has ever posted in this group or ever will. So when you class it as tosh, your one of them, one of those people whom ruined your own country

Re: 22 billion black hole - Susie (16th Sep 2024  21:33:11) Sammy aka Sam You have ignored many questions put to you on previous posts. Your narrative is the same each time. Even Editor put qs to you that you chose not to answer. Give us all a break and move on, because you really are tedious and trivial,you bring nothing to the party!

Re: 22 billion black hole - Sammy (17th Sep 2024  00:10:01) Well Susie has tapped out of this convo as according to her it’s about the personalities involved rather than the title and content of the post. Bye Susie, come back when you get it that this post/forum isn’t all about what you think of others and it’s actually about the subjects in discussion. So back to the original post, a legit professional and appointed agency in the UK who’s name is the Office for Budget Responsibility says we are 30 billion Behind per annum on how we would have been had we remained. Then we are told there is a 22 odd billion shortfall in public finances. Therefore, had we not have left the EU… we wouldn’t have this problem would we?

Re: 22 billion black hole - Grape (17th Sep 2024  09:29:32) I find Sammy's prose a little challenging. However, for once, I think I agree with Sammy. Matters not how bewildering and inaccurate Sammy's postings are, Sammy has the right to keep on spouting out rubbish. A small victory for freedom of speech. Susie is under no obligation to read. Sticking to the subject of the thread would also be very helpful. Alas on this one I'd like Sammy to clarify the subject of the thread: Brexit or Labour's alleged ÂŁ22B shortfall? The alleged ÂŁ22B hole could have been filled in by multiple various national questionable expenses (far exceeding the alleged ÂŁ30B annual Brexit cost), why obsessing on Brexit? [editor]Not to mention the war (Pike) or Covid, both a massive drain on our finances (and the worlds)[/editor]

Re: 22 billion black hole - Susie (18th Sep 2024  22:47:15) Oh Sammy / Sam what a sad bully you are. It's a pity you want to retort in this manner. I'm now back to work and not inclined to feed a troll anymore. As said previously you don't answer questions when put to you, probably because it's all nonsense from you. You haven't provided any evidence for all the statements you made, despite being asked by many. Tedious is what springs to mind and trivial. Probably a pettifogger too.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Pete (19th Sep 2024  11:18:45) Editor- Fail to see how your link refers to what Sam is saying. It matters not if other things have taken place that have added to our financial problems, fact is most financial bodies agree that certainly in the at least medium term we as a country are worse off outside the union. Most of the other posts all seem to be based on hearsay and rhetoric. Suzie- So you bait him [because you really are tedious and trivial,you bring nothing to the party!] and then castigate him because he had the temerity to reply. Ian- spot on

Re: 22 billion black hole - Editor (19th Sep 2024  11:28:41) Pete, my point is that there is only one EU member above us in that list, Germany. Brexit might not have been executed perfectly, and remainers will always find 'problems'. But here we are over 4 years out of the EU and doing very well in the global playing field. I always get frustrated by people who constantly belittle our country but probably do absolutely nothing themselves to help our country.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Local (19th Sep 2024  12:37:40) Spot on Editor . See the London stock is preferred to Germany we are doing very well especially as we have been victimised by the EU because we wanted out of a corrupt and badly run union . The only problem is this government the idiots want to cosy back up to them we must stand up to them.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Russ (19th Sep 2024  15:34:32) Totally agree Ed makes me mad when people run this great country of ours down . Ok sometimes we get it wrong but history shows we are a fantastic country and help everybody we can . Yes we are out in the big wide world and making a good job of it we don’t have to account to anyone least of all the EU . If only this government would back the British people the hard working ones we would get on much better. Support our great entrepreneurs small businesses self employed the back bones of this country.

Re: 22 billion black hole - paul (19th Sep 2024  18:27:13) Hi, I agree with above, support to generate growth over time, to make our country a world leader. What is easily forgotten, Covid 19 Pandemic with the Furlough scheme, cost our country a fortune. It will take a generation i.e. 25 years, to recover the hit. Then we can prosper.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Sam (19th Sep 2024  19:55:45) 17410742 people ruined this country, the editor must be one of them as I know at least three other people neighbours complaining about the editors suppression of remainer views, Ie the editor acts as judge and jury beyond the scope of forum rules, I’ll reach out to the web admin or org and ask the question and hopefully that will be over the editor or whomever has that responsibility as am confident this post will be binned, the editor should act impartially and according to there own rules not personally, ill collect examples to show there colleagues of the dozens of posts not accepted that have been within the rules [editor]Oh dear Sam, you really are a stupid person ! I own this web site - it is ENTIRELY up to me what does and doesn't get seen. I suggest you go elsewhere to pollute the internet. PS This is not an airport - no need to announce your departure.[/editor]

Re: 22 billion black hole - Pete (20th Sep 2024  07:17:01) Editor- Sorry Mr editior but your last post is totaly vindicating what Sam had just said about "The Editor" in his post that you were replying to.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Editor (20th Sep 2024  07:39:25) Hi Pete Sam was acting like a 'Karen' - "I want to speak to the manager" whilst stamping his feet. Quote - "I’ll reach out to the web admin or org and ask the question and hopefully that will be over the editor or whomever has that responsibility.." There is nobody he can complain to. He just needs to walk away, never to entertain us with his rants again.

Re: 22 billion black hole - D (20th Sep 2024  08:27:26) Editor, your comments are incredibly rude and not becoming an editor of The Beano never mind a social media (anti social media?) website. But as you say, you own this website and it is up to you what does and does not get shown. When I read websites such as this I am always mindful that all posts may lean towards the owner's own opinions or agenda and many which do not conform to this ethos may be left out. A very dark web indeed.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Editor (20th Sep 2024  08:40:41) I can confirm that 99.9% of posts are accepted. I am not aware on any 'remainer' posts that have been rejected. Posts are rejected if they get too personal - for instance the bearded gentleman or contain 'bad' swear words and offensive language. There are Facebook groups for those who are happy no longer being able to use made up names.

Re: 22 billion black hole - passfield resident (20th Sep 2024  11:17:29) Editor. Perhaps it's you that should walk away. People often suppose that an editor or moderator on a site like this is impartial, but your contributions certainly haven't been impartial for a while. You certainly don't censor comments that are rude, unpleasant or personal-there have been many of these appearing for a long time. It would explain why the site appears to be mainly used by the same few people who bicker with each other in a sometimes nasty way. A site like this could be something really useful for Liphook, if it worked better. It could encourage debate and information sharing in a civil manner. Shame. Perhaps this will be one of the ones you don't allow on the site.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Truth (20th Sep 2024  11:30:11) Back on topic ... let's do some maths. ÂŁ22bn 'black hole' - which wasn't, but for now let's assume that's correct. ÂŁ10bn - BoE windfall available to HMT due to planned adjustments to the sale of UK Govt bonds. ÂŁ9-13.9bn (est) - commitment due to Labour's above inflation pay-rises to public sector workers plus train drivers. Had Labour not capitulated to striking public sector workers, and admitted that the OBR's statement on the ÂŁ22bn RDEL worked out as a 1.68% overspent on run-rate .... not only was there NO black hole, but Labour actually had a ÂŁ10bn 'bonus' on the way all along. They decided to pay est. ÂŁ9-13.9bn to striking public sector workers, which is why our taxes are going to go through the roof in a few weeks. There was no black hole. There was in fact a bumper ÂŁ10bn bonus incoming all along.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Russ (20th Sep 2024  12:33:20) Truth that’s the TRUTH and that’s what some can’t stand. The last government handed over a good economy going forward this government has knocked that on the head already over spent paying ridiculous wages to those already on high wages. If this carries on we will be bankrupt very soon.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Truth (23rd Sep 2024  14:51:45) Ooops, there was another ÂŁ68,000 we didn't know about contributing to the 'black hole' ... ! Our Deputy Prime Minister has hired a photographer costing ÂŁ68,000 per annum to photograph her time in office. Ms Rayner previously said of a former PM: "The public will be rightly questioning why there is apparently no limit on the money that can be found to pay for a coterie of vanity photographers for the Prime Minister." (Note Ms Rayner is the first Deputy PM to retain a photographer, whereas her 2021 statement related to the PM.) ÂŁ68,000 / ÂŁ300 = 226 pensioners Winter Fuel Allowance

Re: 22 billion black hole - Paul (23rd Sep 2024  15:59:00) Photographer more likely get fuel paid and transport to from event also suits to look good and go to football free in a box Concert tickets also 5 star hotels nothing but the best. More like 150k a year

Re: 22 billion black hole - Russ (23rd Sep 2024  18:38:48) Hypocrisy at its best. Those that voted this lot in have a lot on their shoulders. Thought the last labour government was bad but this lot takes the biscuit.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Pete (7th Oct 2024  15:31:36) Russ- They have been in power for 3 months with a summer recess, do you not think a little more time before taking such a firm stance is in order or are you so entrenched in your opinions that anything the current government does will never be enough.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Russ (7th Oct 2024  17:00:16) Pete I’m cold reinstall my heating allowance take it from the public sector civil servants O dear they can’t do that because the Union’s said it would erode their huge pay rise and that’s not fair . So take it from the old people they won’t mind . Pete it’s all going to end in tears think starmers will be on his way soon. Trouble is the lovely lady’s waiting in the wings will be ten times worse.have a nice day and keep warm.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Pete (10th Oct 2024  18:49:50) Having read this I am inclined to agree, this black hole is smaller than the bigger black hole created by Brexit, but not one politician will ever use the word “Brexit” What ever growth we might or might not be having or whatever comparisons you use it’s important to compare it to we’re we would have been had we not exited, we removed ourselves from free trade with one of the worlds biggest economies. All for a pack of lies, even the boats still come, we took control of nothing as we removed ourselves from the decision making

Re: 22 billion black hole - Russ (10th Oct 2024  19:57:26) See Germany is in deep recession possibly for three years the rest not much better. We on the other hand seem to have weathered the storm better trading with every one . The EU are having to think again perhaps they will realise we are not going to buckle and stop being silly Bs .That’s if our stupid PM doesn’t cock it all up.

Re: 22 billion black hole - Pete (11th Oct 2024  12:32:25) Russ - Interesting that you choose Germany, who as the largest european economy would be expected to have larger fluctuations,as a comparison rather than Spain,Italy, Netherlands and France who are all doing rather better than us or mention that the EU block as a whole is out-performing us even with the Germany drag.

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