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Liphook - Today - Sue (4th Oct 2007 - 19:40:58) Now folks - I know I am probably public enemy No1, but I am very interested in finding out how people view the present Liphook to one of 10-15 years ago (or even further back). We have a lot of talk about adding shops, facilities etc but also there have been a number of postings stating that Liphook did have a much more diverse retail community in the past and services. This subject is not intended to be one of confrontation, but more of content, is LIPHOOK TODAY BETTER THAN THAT OF THE PAST? I invite ALL those who view this site, but do not comment to join in - use the name of Noddy if you wish, this is your chance to have your say - this subject has been raised out of a number of questions/statements that I have heard over the past few months and it would be good to have a communities view point. As for me my question is; after all the extra housing over the past 10-15 years, why have many of the local shops closed (amongst others services) - you would have thought more people = more trade, obviously not - but why?? Your turn now................ Sue

Re: Liphook - Today - stephen (4th Oct 2007 - 22:02:40) sorry I can't give my views as I only moved to this area 3 years ago but since you seem particularly interested in views on Liphook's retail, can I raise something which seems particularly peculiar to me: the dispersed shopping areas think about it - there's the shops around the square, there's shops in Station Road, there's Sainsburys and there's also the post office but that's further away at the co-op. Who planned all that? Rubbish if you have a car. must be impossible if you're old and walking.

Re: Liphook - Today - Noddy (4th Oct 2007 - 23:10:15) Sue, After reading your posting a sad fact of life is that things, people, trends, the way customers shop do change for example shopping online was never as big as it is now 10/15 years ago. People of today have busy life's thanks to things such as mobiles, Internet Families, or having to work extra jobs to keep a roof over their head. With this in mind some people who may live in Liphook may work in london so will tend to buy the stuff they need there rather than within the village. Time will always play a big factor in peoples life's some people prefer to shop at large supermarkets where everything is at hand, others like to shop in independent shops for various reasons. I don't feel Liphook would of changed for the worse I just think it is changing with the times. And as lovely as it can be some times to look back, It is just as nice to look forward with fresh new ideas some good and some bad and look at the improvements been made to make it our community in which we live. Within the last 4 years I have not seen many local business close. However I have seen a couple of new business's open and with future plans happening within Liphook I don't think local business is dead at all. So how about we revise the question and ask - What's the best bits Liphook today and what make's you happy being here. All my love noddy xx (P.S please don't tell big ears ,I was meant to be working)

Re: Liphook - Today - Janet (4th Oct 2007 - 23:50:04) Well, I've been here over 20 years and these are my observations. Then: limited choice of supermarkets in the area; Gateway in Liphook, Fine Fare at Bordon, Gateway in Petersfield, Gateway in Alton and Gateway in Haslemere. Now: Sainsbury's, Tesco, Waitrose and much more variety. Then: B3304 through Passfield a quiet backwater (well, not really, but it was quieter than it is now!). Now: Same road a busy, noisy, dangerous 'race track.' Then: Headley road clogged with school traffic every morning. Now: Headley Road clogged with school traffic every morning (brief respite in early 1990s after bypass opened). Then: average waiting time at Dr's surgery 10 min. Now: average waiting time 45 min. Gains: better supermarkets, bigger village hall, prettier village centre (thanks to Liphook in Bloom). Losses:Coytes, Candybox, butchers' shop, greengrocers, Barclays, Passfield Oak, Conford bakery, newsagents, more roads, more traffic, more noise, more houses, more people. So, some things have changed for the better, some for the worse and some have hardly changed at all.

Re: Liphook - Today - Noddy 2 (5th Oct 2007 - 08:41:28) Good Question! I do not think it is better - different perhaps, but as for services etc and general way of life here - it is harder. The bus services have been cut, train times changed so many have to go to Haslemere, there were 3 Banks open daily, now we have one, with the other open 3 days, we lost the shops mentioned above together with Unwins, Alldays, Balfour, Shoe Shops, Furniture shop, Health Food Shop, Habbadashery Shop, craft shop, Bistro, Matchbox boutique, their mens & kids shop, the other Posh ladies clothes shop that is now S&K, the Granary, and there is probably more. We have also lost our Job Centre. As for the comment that little has closed over the past 4 years - I dont do not understand that, but yes a few have opened such as A3 sports (we did have a sports shop previous), Habit Solutions, a hair dresser, 1 new estate agent, Culture, Urban Home, Liphook Hardware (housewares dept), Countrywide.

Re: Liphook - Today - liz (5th Oct 2007 - 10:03:23) This is a tricky one. Depends how far you go back. Also I would have preferred to see Liphook kept as a small village but know that wasn't likely! In my view the negatives are the loss of the smaller independent shops - greengrocer, butcher, two newsagents, convenience store etc. We have also lost a post office in the village centre, a smaller alternative supermarket and about to lose a petrol station. One of the biggest negatives is traffic, traffic, traffic. Yes I know it was bad before the bypass put that traffic didn't extend throughout all of the village - and the aim of the by pass was to reduce traffic. Local services do not seem to have expanded to keep up with the growth in new housing - appears particularly to be a problem with schooling, doctors and sewage/flooding/drainage. Also Barratt style housing, the Millenium Hall and the Sainsbury's building, totally out of character with the area and have not improved the street scene. No convenient shopping for the elderly who find Sainsbury's too big and too daunting. Reduced train service. The Royal Anchor being gutted and turned into a 'theme pub' (soem time ago now). Increased yobbery. What is better? It is convenient to have a major supermarket 'on the doorstep'. More reliable electricity supply. A decent pub (even the Links under new management is better than the 'old' Links - unless you go back donkey's years). Liphook in Bloom. The Ghurka restuarant. erm.. I'm struggling here... The Carnival is still excellent but perhaps enhanced now that we have more people living in the village so that now it is an even bigger event! Many of the negatives are here to stay but I would really would love to see apart form improved services would be an independent butcher, greengrocer and perhaps a convenience store and another resturant. Don't know if this is the sort of thing you wanted Sue, but hope it helps!

Re: Liphook - Today - Tim (5th Oct 2007 - 14:31:56) I think the way people are shopping is changing, particularly using the internet. I can shop at Next,John Lewis , Waitrose from the comfort of my home, why would I need a local shop? Last Saturday I wanted to buy a particular CD that is in the top 100 and a pair of sports headphones. I tried everywhere in both Petersfield and Haslemere. Woolworths only carried the top 75 cds and the headphones were available in Haslemere but cost £30. I used Amazon instead in stock and half the price. Plus it's better for the environment as I won't use the car next time! Tim

Re: Liphook - Today - Simon Coyte (9th Oct 2007 - 09:51:38) Why is retailing in Liphook in decline? Many factors, but I think the main one is that shopping and life styles have changed. People now treat shopping as entertainment, its an outing, they want bigger shops more choice, places to have coffee and dont mind spending a couple of quid to park to enjoy those things. Liphook is to small to offer anything like that, and so we go to Portsmouth or Guildford, smaller shopping experiances can be found in Petersfield, Haslemere, or Farnham where even on a weekday afternoon there are a considerable amount of shoppers on the high street unlike Liphook which appears deserted. There is a future for specialist shops in liphook with good profit margins but for the average shop to be competitive they need a constant flow of shoppers, so its a bit chicken and egg; No shops, No shoppers, or perhaps it is No shoppers, No shops! I miss running a shop in the village, but with rates, insurance, staff costs, collecting tax on behalf of the Goverment, and competition from the larger stores and the Internet (and I expect if you are reading this, you like me buy on line) I am glad I am out of it, and only have to worry what the traffics like on the M25 or where ever my white van job takes me.

Re: Liphook - Today - Stephen (9th Oct 2007 - 13:31:27) I think any analysis that focusses on fixed location shops in the centre of any village will miss the wider change in purchasing habits. What do I spend my income on? Well, when I take away mortgage and bills, my 'purchases' are likely to include - food/drink - leisure/entertainment - services - hard goods, e.g. new freezer Where will I (or Joe Average) buy these primarily (in turn: - Sainsbury's - pubs, cinema, bookshops, etc - usually directly from various local suppliers - online or out-of-town superstore My point is that (Sainsbury's excepted) I really cannot think that I would utilise further local shopping. Yes, I try to spend my money locally when possible but that's still only going to be a tiny fraction of my income. The point has already been made about costs of overheads and difficulties of being competitive. In my view, the future is locally supplied goods that are purchased by phone or on-line and delivered to the door. Alternatively, if Liphook village shops want to pull in the punters (and get them away from Sainsbury's and other large/on-line retailers) then there is going to have to be a serious look at what is needed to attract them to 'make the trip'. What about a farmer's market?

Re: Liphook - Today - liz (9th Oct 2007 - 14:21:50) Perhaps we could learn from Grayshott.

Re: Liphook - Today - Mike Grimes (9th Oct 2007 - 15:44:00) Abel & Cole have just annonced that they now deliver in Liphook. They come highly recommended by my Sister in law who has used them for some time in Farnham. Together with Riverford (who have a local distribution centre) and New Leaf Foods who operate a box scheme from Haselmere there is now such a choice of produce (including meat, fish, bread, and dairy) delivered to the door that there must be no chance for a new retail food business in the village. As Simon says, the rents demanded by landlords together with business rates and reduced footfall make these unviable. And when existing businesses are no longer supported by a post office salary they will fail also.

Re: Liphook - Today - sue (9th Oct 2007 - 22:44:40) Good opinions, most of them I endorse and believe. It seems fair to ask 'do we really need to build more shops' – if so which kind and where would they go – (not another retail area made)?' I know people require a veg/butchers and that would be excellent, but in reality is anyone going to be brave enough here today. A number expressed their preference is not to purchase in general locally. I totally agree, people need to be encouraged to stop and purchase, that does not mean that the shops here are no good, but we have found ourselves back in the days of locals buying some essential items out of the village (due to store preference and lack of choice), and while there doing their whole shop. I think that most retailers here, always go that bit further to satisfy customers, and I know that many do offer a delivery service, so anyone can phone up with their request and have it delivered the same day (within reason). I hope traders here are not going to become 'rare breads', only required for the urgent must have ‘today’ purchases that the on-line shops just can't do - or ever will. There are a number of shops that have worked very hard to develop new customers here and in surrounding areas, but it is sad that with so much housing development, less is on offer - not just retail, but services, the council tax collected from here has to be much greater now than 15 years ago, but the facilities and services do not reflect that. (Apart from the Scout hut – but that seems to be contentious) even the library has reduced hours. Surely Liphook deserves just a bit better!. Noddy (1) pointed out that it is not good to live in the past – not so much a rosy view of old, but more that we are now living the 'Future' of those in the past, who probably said exactly the same then - has it worked are we better? Has it achieved their vision? And how today can things change for a better future, if that is needed? Or are we at perfection? Traffic has been mentioned, will the A3 tunnel reduce it or will those living in Headly/Lindford, find it easier to join at Liphook, than to wade their way down Crossways road in Grayshott to join the link road, and so too for Lynchmere/Camelsdale etc rather than go round Critchmere/Woolmer Hill?. I have tried to find a map showing all the link roads on the A3 tunnel, but couldn’t find it. Does anyone know anything further? These are my own observations, and not to be taken as the ‘view point’ of anyone else running a business, or residing in Liphook. (for the record) Simon Nice to share your views from one of the well respected and loved family business of the 'old' Liphook - fancy running a smaller version again?? Thinking of resurrecting our delivery company, hundreds of online parcels to deliver!! T.I.C.

Re: Liphook - Today - Keith James Webb (10th Oct 2007 - 05:18:41) Liphook, Liphook, Liphook, my dear old village that was. I was born and had 29 happy years there. I served with the local Fire station, but alas was taken away 20 years ago when I joined the Prison Service. I am now stuck in Huntingdon in Cambridgeshire. I have made the trip most years to the Carnival, a tradition that draws me back, work permiting. I have seen many changes and watched it grow into a town. I wonder if everyone knows everyone now as they probably did when I was there. It was a great place to grow up and I believe I felt safe during my years there. I wonder if the yob, gang culture has taken over as it seems to up here. Changes are always difficult when population pressures are on, but has it changed for the better, I doubt it very much. Having a safe enviroment whereby the population looked after each other has probably gone. It is good to see the carnival still going, I was the chairman for a year. Keep it going. I can't make it this year, so make it a good one for next. Good luck my old Liphookonians. I may return down south when I retire. Keith Webb

Re: Liphook - Today - liz (10th Oct 2007 - 09:31:43) I get Riverford's veggie box but would also still support a local greengrocer - more choice. Also I wonder how Riverford's meat prices compare with the local butchers in Grayshott? Riverford look expensive to me, no doubt because the meat is organic but I haven't actually sat down and compared the prices. Unfortunately I cannot afford to 'shop organic' all of the time. I don't think you can rule out local businesses, particularly selling local produce.

Re: Liphook - Today - F (10th Oct 2007 - 14:33:58) P.P.E. Nice to hear from you. No we do not all know each other.

Re: Liphook - Today - liz (12th Oct 2007 - 13:38:07) No we don't all know each other, that's Conford you're thinking of ;)

Re: Liphook - Today - Keith James Webb (13th Oct 2007 - 06:09:37) Ha Ha, ok Mr F,,,,, who are you as it was a long time ago I was PPE, identify yourself.. Cheers Keith

Re: Liphook - Today - terry (27th Mar 2009 - 12:00:21) I have lived in or near Liphook from birth in 1963. I have to say that it has to me lost that sense of a village community, is this me or do other people agree?. As to shops well i miss the old candybox!, yes i am going back some years now, and as to other shops well i have always thought Liphook as a village has always been well supplied. Some things have got better i quite recently took my daughter down to Radford park as a keen photographer myself and trying to encourage her as well there are many fine photos to be taken there, but when i explained to her that when daddy was her age i remember the entrance to the Radford park car park being a tip (yes Really). As to other improvements, the old army supply depot now gone and i guess it is far better with all the houses there, but employment from it has been taken away, so good and bad there. Does anyone else miss Coytes?, i loved to have a look around there for bits and bobs i needed or did`nt but ended up buying anyway. Anyway these are my thoughts at the moment will add more at another time.

Re: Liphook - Today - Jan Rathbone (27th Mar 2009 - 16:31:26) Well, don't hold your breath to see what happens to Liphook shops when the new Bordon Eco Town emerges. Allegedly to include a train station, cinema, more shops....etc., etc. But I must say my boys hate catching a train from Liphook and so do I, the number of errr...'people'.. hanging around appearing to have had one too many cans of cider, shouting and gathering in groups in the evenings certainly make me feel very uncomfortable to say the least. Then there was the recent story about a disabled person confined to a wheelchair that could not access the platform on the station due to a '..victorian station not being adequately updated'. And then we hear the bus service link to Liphook station is going to cease.This has to have an effect on the local shops. Having only lived in the area for 7 years, I have noticed that since the Somerfield supermarket closed so have other shops nearby and I wondered if this had something to do with the slow decline? Many commuters jumping off the train would walk in to that supermarket, get their goods, then remember they needed something else from one of the local shops, but now they get in their cars and drive over to Sainsbury's and then go home... sadly the local shops miss out. I have heard some locals blame Sainsbury's for the reduced trade at the local shops, Somerfield may have been one of them? I know that what I couldn't get at one supermarket, I went to the other, I also popped in other shops there too.I have since always tried to support the local shops, so nice to be greeted by a smile and chat and made to feel that my custom is welcomed and part of the community by the owners (big plug for the Hardware Store!). These days people want convenience and, sadly, loyalty and supporting your local store is not always top of some peoples agenda... until they hear their local shops are closing then they wonder why! too late.

Re: Liphook - Today - P Weyland (27th Mar 2009 - 17:13:36) I recall 'The Meat Market' (butchers shop down Midhurst Road) packing up business even before Sainsburys opened its doors, they didnt even give it a go. There is evidence of small businesses still taking on the might of the supermarket. Theres a greengrocers in The Forest Centre, Bordon that fends of 3 competing national supermarkets in the area and also a butchers shop in Grayshott. I'm sure there are enough affluent people in the area who will choose a choice cut of meat above the bland supermarket products or a fresher stick of celery or whatever. The guy with the PC shop down the Midhurst Road does well as most computer sales are online or with PC World etc. I also fondly recall 'The Candy Box' with sweets by the quarter and also Webbs newsagent down Station Road with all the toys stacked on the high shelves but unfortunately the sign of times is that large retail parks offer a 'one stop shop' for cheap goods from disinterested teenage saturday workers at multi-national chains.

Re: Liphook - Today - Finchie (28th Mar 2009 - 11:07:12) Well I think it's blinking marvelous. Only been here a mere 7 years, but was introduced to it through visiting my great auntie Elsie in the 70's, 80',s 90s. Also spent the 80's and driving through it every saturday, pre-A3 bypass, on my way to Hayling Island to sit in my Nevada Beige Ford Escort MkII all day, waiting for the slightest breeze to hop on my windsurfer. If you think the traffic is bad now - can you imagine the A3 volume of traffic being filtered across the very same 2 roundabouts in the center of the "village" ! People are great, shops are great, easy access to other great spots nearby. Could do with a local shop selling kitchen/bedroom/haberdashery stuff tho' ;-) Easy parking in Sainsburies as well - always free spots in the mother & toddler section, apart from 5pm on Fridays. !! Clearly a few things to sort out, but these aren't unique to Liphook, same challenges as any village/town. There are loads of great people that do so much for the village already, and I am astounded (and grateful) for the amount of time they put in - often thankless. The great thing is that it looks like there are many people with energy and enthusiasm who that want to make sure we continue to go in the right direction - I'm right behind you. It is all to easy to be critical of initiatives/ideas from our armchairs, but I will back anyone prepared to make the effort and make a difference. There must be someone out there who wants to sort out Youth Center where our little angels, our next generation, can hang out, chill, play pool, have a bit of their own space - without needing to hang out on street corners ! Happy Weekend, Cheers, Finchie

Re: Liphook - Today - Noddy4 (28th Mar 2009 - 11:47:06) I am responding to the question what we want in Liphook, primarily with regards the shops. My own shopping habits have changed since the advent of the internet. Thus is a far cheaper form of shopping for items other than perishable food items. Even allowing for the delivery charges, it is still far cheaper, especially if one orders in a good supply at a time to reach the minimum order. I feel no sense of disloyalty to Liphook shops for shopping in this way, because in my opinion the majority of non food items available in Liphook are still sourced from the same suppliers who have imported from the Far East. If any of the shopkeepers who read this can honestly say that the majority of their non food goods are not imported I would support them more. So why not shop from the internet for these same items at a considerably cheaper cost? The internet suppliers usually offer good discounts and incentives which is something Liphook shops do not do. If small local shops souced more of their products locally, there would be less lorries in the village. Shop in Liphook? Flowers to the flower shop from a lorry delivering from Holland, Torches and televisions from Taiwan, washing machines made in Eastern Europe- if I can get these same imported goods massively cheaper elsewhere then I will. A sense of community is based on more than a good profit for local shopkeepers.

Re: Liphook - Today - Darren Ellis (29th Mar 2009 - 10:59:36) Lived here all my life (over 40 years!)............. some may say sad, others hopefully not..... have to say I think Liphook has a lot going for it! 1: Great location... London 1 hour by train, coast less time away by car, acres upon acres of National Trust and open common land within 15 minutes walk of the whole village and if you need to travel the world two major airports just an hour away. 2: A great community spirit.... have you seen how many groups and organisations are listed in the back of the community magazine, wonderful Liphook in Bloom, LIDBA, recent Street Watch and even this community website to name but a few. 3: Reasonable facilities...... Bohunt school/centre, Millenium Centre, two doctors surgeries, three dentists, local shops and even (dare I say it??) Sainsburys. Just a few things that keep me here, there's many more, too many to mention! Yes we have some crime.......... extremely little though compared to some places......, and traffic congestion (name anywhere in the southeast that doesn't) but overall I personally wouldn't want to live anywhere else at the moment. Think many people believe the same which is why developers have wanted to build house here and people want to live here!

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